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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon has screwed my workflow - where is my red rocket x?

Frank Glencairn said:
Here is my shopping list for our next "best bang for the buck" workstation

[FONT=&]Dual Xeon, Dual Cuda GPU (2x4GB), 64GB RAM,
500GB SSD Raid, 30TB RAID5, uninterruptible power supply, BluRay burner, 27" monitor.[/FONT]

[FONT=&]2 x 256GB INTENSO SSD SATA III Top (3812440)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]10 x 3TB TOSHIBA DT01ACA Series (DT01ACA300)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]8 x 4GB KINGSTON ECC ValueRAM DDR3-RAM (KVR16R11D8/4I)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x ALLNET ALL91500[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x ASUS MB Z9PE-D8 WS (Int,2011,2P,DDR3) 90-MSVDY0-G0EAY00T[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x BITFENIX Shinobi XL[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M2 850W (RS850-SPM2D3-EU)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x DELL UltraSharp U2713HM[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2 x GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 770 WindForce OC 4 GB (GV-N770OC-4GD)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2 x INTEL Xeon E5-2630v2 Box (BX80635E52630V2)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x LG BH16NS40 Blu-Ray Brenner Bulk SATA Schwarz[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2 x NOCTUA NH-D14 SE2011[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1 x SHARKOON 5-Bay Raid Box[/FONT]

[FONT=&]That's about 4642 Euros, including 19% VAT.

For Dragon material, I would use better GPU cards though.

And yeah, stay away from macDrive - it is slow and it really can mess up a system - we had a ton of trouble with it and lost 3 SSDs in 2 weeks, till we banned it from our workstations.
I use exFat on all external drives, and never had a problem swaping them between Mac and Win, also never lost a file.

If you really need a MacOS at some point in a pinch, you can always run it in no time on a virtual machine on any PC, with much less hassle (and often faster) than a Hackintosh.

[/FONT]
Click to expand...

For that price, would it not be better to get this motherboard?

http://www.amazon.com/NEW-RELEASE-SuperMicro-X9DRG-QF-Motherboard/dp/B007J5NSWQ
 
The Supermicro has no USB3 and a proprietary form factor - can't see much benefit.

But yeah, my list is only ONE example - the beauty of custom building a workstation is, that you can exactly tailor it to your needs and budget,
and you can easily upgrade every single component whenever you want, on top of it.
 
Florian Stadler said:
Why not? I have been using Resolve ever since it's been ported to the OSX platform (and in telecine sessions since 1998) and it has been getting better by the day. It started off at a great place to begin with. I don't understand your point.
Click to expand...

It would have been rather difficult to use Resolve in 1998 since it didn't exist until it was introduced in 2004. The DaVinci Renaissance was around in 1998, although it was a very different, hardware based product. The 2K - another hardware based device, designed around HD and "early" 2K resolutions - was first introduced in 1998. So the chances of you having used a Resolve in 1998 are zero. The chances you were using a 2K are about 50/50 (and only if you were posting in HD - also unlikely in 1998), and the chances that you were using a standard definition, hardware based Renaissance are pretty high, regardless of what you think you were using.
 
Chris makes several very good points....one of which is the portability...the nmp is tiny and runs on fumes....i really did not expect that and it opens it up for field use in ways that i hadn't even thought of before getting my 8core....

as for performance: i am still waiting for my dragon upgrade and was kind of waiting to upgrade my work station until i had my dragon to play with the footage....well that did not happen and i needed the workstation sooner.....am really happy with the 8core...glad i did not go with the 6core....i only use resolve, rcx and fcpx....rcx is the slowest of the bunch because as of right now it only utilizes one gpu....but i am pretty sure there is room for improvement because if RED hasn't optimized the sdk for the nmp yet, how can we expect the best performance in resolve and fcpx...

i really, really, really wish RED would make some raw dragon footage available so everyone can play with it and figure things out....i don't understand why this is not happening......at all...

i used to only use premier, was my first experience with desktop video in 1993 and in general what got me hooked....that said, i can't wait to get every last trace of adobe software off my machines....the second i have more time to play with pixelmator i swear i will ditch PS for good....lazyness and comfort keeps pulling me back but i will do it one of these days.....
adobe is making promises and demos (with red raw on a cell phone!) but really aren't helping at all....

like plenty of people have said here: PC is definitely an option to explore....there will be an adjustment period but in the end it will probably work just as well (or not) as a mac...nothing is perfect...but if i would spend the time to get used to a new system...i would honestly consider fcpx and approach this from that angle.....

as for money saved if you are going to PC....there are plenty of articles about that....maybe you can save 10%, maybe 30%....in the end neither solution will be cheap and in the end you get what you pay for....all things considered....

i honestly do not understand why any system dealing with 6k files can be without TB2....i don't get it....USB3 just isn't fast enough....everythign else is a nightmare of drivers, expansion boxes, wall warts,....just does not make sense to me at all.....and i am not even getting into the possibilities of networking over TB....nothing is perfect but i do like true and simple plug and play when it works and TB works....

i really wish i had some dragon footage to really check my system with it....
 
paul schefz said:
i honestly do not understand why any system dealing with 6k files can be without TB2....i don't get it....USB3 just isn't fast enough....everythign else is a nightmare of drivers, expansion boxes, wall warts,....just does not make sense to me at all.....and i am not even getting into the possibilities of networking over TB....nothing is perfect but i do like true and simple plug and play when it works and TB works....
Click to expand...
There are other forms of fast interfaces, such as SAS or Fiber, that had been around for much longer than TB and have as good or better speeds with no issues with drivers whatsoever. So, yes, you can do 6K without the TB.
 
jake blackstone said:
There are other forms of fast interfaces, such as SAS or Fiber, that had been around for much longer than TB and have as good or better speeds with no issues with drivers whatsoever. So, yes, you can do 6K without the TB.
Click to expand...
correct...but TB has brought that speed to the masses and made it plug and play....i have never seen a consumer computer with fiber or sas....
TB is still a niche but at least we are seeing more and more stuff coming out...
i get much more excited about the lacie TB2 little big disk then some huge case that needs it's own ceiling fan and power plant....obviously storage size is an issue but i would prefer development going towards smaller, faster and less powerhungry.....
 
as great as more mobile TB solutions are they lack processing power....I think the empty TB2 promise that apple is selling for 700 isn't that expensive a solution since you can pick your own drives, plus its TB2 not TB1. I know there are not that many TB2 options yet on the market generally speaking
 
paul schefz said:
correct...but TB has brought that speed to the masses and made it plug and play....i have never seen a consumer computer with fiber or sas....
TB is still a niche but at least we are seeing more and more stuff coming out...
i get much more excited about the lacie TB2 little big disk then some huge case that needs it's own ceiling fan and power plant....obviously storage size is an issue but i would prefer development going towards smaller, faster and less powerhungry.....
Click to expand...

There are many more RAID enclosures with SAS interfaces, than with TB. SAS is much more mature technology and at times can be even more cost effective, than TB. So, your original statement about absolute necessity of TB still doesn't apply...
 
i think having it built in vs being a card add on is what he meant by the masses... since many people have it and won't necessarily need TB1/2 on the mac side...vs i think people buying SAS or Fibre cards know what they are getting into... regardless fast I/O is always a good thing no matter what port your sticking it in...
 
jake blackstone said:
There are many more RAID enclosures with SAS interfaces, than with TB. SAS is much more mature technology and at times can be even more cost effective, than TB. So, your original statement about absolute necessity of TB still doesn't apply...
Click to expand...

Less flexibility with SAS solutions, though, as if you have an external SAS RAID box, you can only attach it to a machine with the right model of SAS controller. Being able to easily move a Thunderbolt RAID system between workstations, or use it with a laptop in the field and then attach it to a Mac Pro back at the office, is a pretty damn useful capability, even if you also have some big non-mobile SAS or Fibre Channel infrastructure. If you want Thunderbolt flexibility plus the option to use SAS storage, you can also use something like this (or just your favorite SAS controller in a Thunderbolt/PCIe enclosure).

It's extremely handy having an external interface as fast as Thunderbolt as a standard feature on every machine, as it now is in the Mac world.
 
got to download matt's dragon clip today....it plays faster on my nmp 8 core then my epic files....i am getting full size full speed in rcx....and that only uses one d700 right now....looking good....
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
My better PC workstations chew right through Dragon footage, no Rocket-X, no problem.
Click to expand...

Jeff when you say your better workstations chew through Dragon footage, can you explain? I'm looking for a dailies solution for Dragon 6K 6:1. This will be my first project using Dragon, and need to turn around dailies quickly, so looking for a proper solution to render Avid files in real time.

Thanks,

Von
 
Hey Von, Jeff and Phil have super computer PCs that they can load up with multiple high end GPUs. That is working for a lot of people, but if your clients want prores you need to then deal with the third party prores stuff...or have like an Evo storage device and own both mac and pc systems on hand. The pcs provide lots more options as far as power users go...but up to you if the prores encoding without apple support is worth it...im sort of too shook to get into it right now without running a lot of tests before committing to a PC ecosystem
 
If you monitor your cpu, drives, gpu and memory during any part of your workflow you will see that the demands change. The number 1 thing to have is fast drives. Period. Start there. We use a CS6 w/ 7tb Raid0 for media (with 2 separate backups) 14tb for previews and exports and an SSD for OS & scratch. The second thing is to separate the program executions to multiple drives. As far as platforms go Windows has always provided us with the ability to upgrade so we grow with it. We chose the 2011 socket with the 3930k with the intent to upgrade to the 20/24 threads when prices drop. But we have yet to see the 12 threads break 60% on export. On a recent feature we loaded the timeline with 9 hrs of 4K 6:1 footage and scrubbed through it like it was a ten second clip. So if your in the market to improve your work flow with out killing your wallet (yes there are faster systems but the cost over improvement ratio is marginal) go with Premiere CS6 &:

Asus Sabertooth x79
3930k OC to 4.6mhz (read the comparisons with 4930 60 ect, not worth it)
water loop
Nivida 790
48gb Ram (more is better for the DPX DCP workflow but for edit/export its more then you need)
7 3tb drives 64gb cache 7200 spin min (best price point for now)
2 SSD (1 for OS and one for scratch)

If you are hesitant to use the Asus on board Raid0 then the best card/price is the Areca ARC-1883i PCI-Express 3.0 x8 SAS RAID Adapter - 12 internal drives which runs at Raid3 (what you want). Run this off a 1500 watt inverter out of your production vehicle or lug it to your set = :D
 
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