Dragon 6K files and PCM-M10 Audio Recorder Timecode issues

[meagan thomas]

So, I have tried numerous ways to auto sync the WAV files from this recorder to the RED Dragon 6k files. Footage was shot (audio and video) at the same time. Some camera audio was also recorded, but a very, very low volume.

I tried RedCinex Pro (latest version), Pluraleyes (also latest version), Syncing inside Premeier Pro (CC 2014.2), all no go....I'm not surprised about Pluraleyes, it's always had some issues with RED files, but I hoped better for RedCineX Pro. RedCineX Pro will read the directory where the WAV files are, appears to start auto-sync, but nothing really happens, and the third track, where the WAV file should go, doesn't show up and outputting a file clearly shows it's not sync'ed and isn't there. I tried just syncing one Video file with one Audio file, and again, nothing. It does not add or sync the WAV file to the clip. All the clip shows is the camera audio, despite all attempts. Premiere will not auto sync either and will only sync via slate (via markers, which works, but is very labor intensive, or start or end, which means nothing is really sync'ed). I also tried Resolve 11 Lite, and it wouldn't go either.

There was some camera audio, but as noted above, it was very very low volume. You can barely, just barely hear the audio, and very difficult to see the waveforms from the camera audio in Premiere.

For this recorder, is it possible/likely that it does not have timecode? Meaning all files will have to be slate sync'ed? Any thoughts out there about what I might be missing?

 

[Dave Winder]

Hi Meagan
A quick look at that device and I dont see an input for time code, nor output and no mention of it in the manual. Were you feeding it time code somehow? Im afraid your stuck with the slate method.

 

[meagan thomas]

Yea, I wasn't in control of the Sony PCM device, so I don't fully know what it could do or couldn't do, not really. There might be an external device to force timecode we could purchase, but the budget is so low it's absurd. They couldn't even afford $1200.00 for a RAID, or rather, they just wouldn't spend any money on necessary equipment. The sound guy was a volunteer, like me. My guess was that slate sync is the only to go forward, but I thought I'd post here before giving up.

I told the Producer and Director that I would not slate sync audio over 2000+ r3d files for free (it's supposedly a feature film and on the first two days they generated over 200+ files, with a planned total shoot time of 18-24 days, roughly). IF the camera audio was better, you maybe could edit with that and slate sync the final edits of the preferred clips on the timeline, but they'd have to make sure the camera audio was much louder, and I wasn't in a position to dictate policy. How much editing can you do in that scenario? You can select what you think are the best clips, sync them, and then try to edit, because you need the slate showing in every clip you want to use, right? Furthermore, I too was a volunteer, which meant I was not being listened to. Maybe you can replace edit, but so much is undefined, and it's so much easier to do it the right way in the first place. Just my mistake for not getting these details nailed down before I got involved.

Facing 2000+ potential slate sync audio files and no real input, I decided that they would have pay me something (and my rate was ridiculously low, btw). They decided they wouldn't pay me, even at a very low rate, so I just said I won't work for free on such a project, that was that. Lesson learned, I guess....

Your reply is VERY much appreciated!

 

[Marc Wielage]

The PCM-M10 is an older device and is not a timecode recorder, so it's a very poor choice for production sound, in my opinion. It's basically no better than a $300 Zoom, which to me is more of a cheap box made for musicians to use for composing songs or for reporters to do interviews, not for serious film or TV use. And the mics are attached to the recorder, so getting the mics in the best possible position in relation to the actors (or interview subjects) is nearly impossible.

If you had common jammed timecode between camera and sound, the tracks would lock up automatically. But honestly, if the people behind this production are this brain-damaged, then they get what they deserve. What they really needed to do is simply get a Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign up and raise enough money to actually do the project separately. If it's not a long shoot, maybe $5K could've been enough to limp through and rent a decent timecode recorder, a couple of wireless mics, and a boom mic for 2-3 weeks.

In the absence of that option: hire a good assistant editor with a lot of patience and be prepared to spend lots and lots of time and money painstakingly syncing all this stuff up by hand. Because the PCM-M10 has no timecode, it won't be easy or convenient to reuse those tracks for the final audio edit. And there may be a drift factor, because the timebase accuracy of these little digital recorders will not necessarily stay in sync for long with a digital camera.

A lot of these problems can be averted if the producers ask the right questions, hire the right people, and do a day of tests prior to production. Worrying about sound later can be catastrophic. Ask Robert Rodriguez: all the sound for his first feature, El Mariachi, wound up being bad and Sony Pictures spent weeks and $200,000 re-recording every single line of dialogue and sound effects from scratch. And that was a movie with a $7000 production budget.

I have said this before, and I'll say it again: I find it very sad when filmmakers spend $40,000+ on the digital camera (plus untold money on lenses, mounts, batteries, and SSDs), but are only willing to spend $300 on audio. They really need to get their priorities straight. Sound is far more than 10% of the final result, so why not give it at least 10% of the budget?