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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DR ..a good discussion!!

Les Hillis said:
I'm seeing the same thing you and Reddy are, with the Gemini having slightly more real-world range than the Helium. People can decide for themselves how important or valuable that is.

I can't remember off the top of my head how much of a visual difference there is between the LLO, Standard and STH OLPF's, but I imagine using the STH OLPF on the Helium might help with matching its highlights with the Gemini's. Testing the differences between all three on any camera would provide an indication of what to expect.

Edit - Just saw your second question Thai. Yes, I just pulled back the highlights on Reddy's test shots in Redcine-X. How much of a difference in highlight retention there is between the Gemini and Helium would depend on what you're shooting. As you say, in a typical situation where you're not anywhere near clipping anyway, the difference wouldn't be noticeable. But the comparison images were there, so I thought I'd have a look. Both camera's have a good amount of range imo.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Les!
All clear now :-)
As far as I can judge based on these images, for me the gap is not big enough to jump from Helium to Gemini.
I don‘t know what others say since every DP has his/her secret sauce. But Helium with skintone OLPF gives you the nicest skintone rendition and hightlight retention. But you sacrify 1 stops. So you are stuck at 320/400 ISO. Not a problem for me, but for some.
 
Thai Christen said:
Thanks, Les!
All clear now :-)
As far as I can judge based on these images, for me the gap is not big enough to jump from Helium to Gemini.
I don‘t know what others say since every DP has his/her secret sauce. But Helium with skintone OLPF gives you the nicest skintone rendition and hightlight retention. But you sacrify 1 stops. So you are stuck at 320/400 ISO. Not a problem for me, but for some.
Click to expand...

Hi Thai,
I find the difference to be a stop between the Gemini and Helium(Gemini a stop better than Helium), and I have not tried the Skintone OLPF. The extra stop of Highlight retention is very important in certain critical situations even with lighting, that's where Alexa was better. I feel that Monstro and Gemini are equivalent to Alexa in terms of highlight retention and the smoothness to the image at near clipping. I have not tested a Monstro and Gemini and Alexa side by side to quantify precisely, but my experience is that the three are equal in Highlights.
 
I want to try Gemini with Skintone OLPF at ISO 800 so bad. I want to see how the highlights would hold even better.
 
sreenivasa reddy s said:
Hi Thai,
I find the difference to be a stop between the Gemini and Helium(Gemini a stop better than Helium), and I have not tried the Skintone OLPF. The extra stop of Highlight retention is very important in certain critical situations even with lighting, that's where Alexa was better. I feel that Monstro and Gemini are equivalent to Alexa in terms of highlight retention and the smoothness to the image at near clipping. I have not tested a Monstro and Gemini and Alexa side by side to quantify precisely, but my experience is that the three are equal in Highlights.
Click to expand...
Hi Reddy,
Are you sure about 1 stop? Can anyone else confirm this?
Because looking at Les corrected images above, it looks more like 1/3 - 1/2 of a stop to me. But I could be misjudging because I am looking only from an iPad.

Concerning Alexa vs Red, it is more complicated than just DR and highlight retention. Color science, workflow, Arri brand, more production friendly etc. Its the whole package.
Lets see and hope that Gemini and Monstro can change the game.
 
Fabricio 3200 Iso F4

https://www.dropbox.com/s/li5k3ecbggi8whn/fabricio iso 3200 f4.RMD?dl=0

A001_C003_0101_EB.0000007_F.0000000.jpg
 
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Aaron Lochert said:
While the high ISO stuff from Gemini is pretty nuts, it's shots like these that draw me back into Helium...
Click to expand...

Likewise. They've both got the colours, but the Helium still has that crazy smooth resolution.





Thanks for the test shots Fabricio.



 
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Cheers guys. As I mentioned, this was just a quick test that one client wanted to see before committing to a long term project. The tungsten bulb was something like 40w, and the LED I have no idea. But it shows that Helium can handle lowlight just fine.

Back to the DR topic, I was looking at those shots from Sreenivasa, and looks like Gemini has close to a stop better highlight protection than Helium (at the same ISO). So this makes Helium 1600 have the same highlight protection as Gemini 800, which by Luigi's test are almost like the Alexa highlight protection. Also I think this is one of the reasons that Panavision rates the DXL2 a 1600 native ISO (to have Alexa like, or a little better, highlight protection).

In a scene with plenty of light I could see myself using Helium at 1600 ISO, to have Alexa like highlight protection, and still have a clean and nice image (might need a little denoise though). Now if there's not enough light I would recommend not pushing past ISO 2500 (on new calibration).



Also, I've fond here the 2k ProRes LT from my tests and they hold up really well. Apart from the 8K tests, there's also 7k and 6k mode in there (just 2k prores though, could't find the R3D's).

The one that says ND 2 it means that the ND is cutting 2 stops (ND 0.6).

Updated folder with ProRes:
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1hz5-A37fozQywq0A44uF0uWK4veaLzr2
 
Thanks a lot Fabricio!!! Downloading the Prores Files now!
 
Fabricio,

After initially grading the .R3ds that had a corresponding Prores file, I really didn't notice "that much" of a real difference, except for the obvious resolution difference in the timeline in Davinci Resolve before exporting out as a 2048x1080 2K DCI H.264 file.
 
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Yep.. I've notice this as well.. even with the LT prores.. the DSMC2 gives a really nice prores files to the point that I have been telling some clients to just shoot 2k ProRes 422HQ, since it would fit waay better their needs. And no complains so far! :)
 
Anybody have any recent GEMINI footages to share? Interested in seeing STH OLPF on a GEMINI in Low light mode.
 
some shot Gemini and Monstro. post only here in reduser your grade.
Prores is Monstro out of the camera .

Download link:
https://od.lk/d/NjJfNTQzMDk1NF8/Archive.zip

Next week i post DR Monstro and Sony Venice on xyla Chart.
 
Luigi.


Downloading now. Thank you very much for doing this again!!!
 
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