Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DPX with FCP, can it be 10bit RGB?

How do you guys overcome the LUT represntation diffrences in color and in FCP (GLUETOOLS)?

same DPX on the same monitor out from color with a LUT or out from FCP with the same LUT (imported into gluetools settings) look very very different.

Any Ideas?
 
Luca Immesi said:
http://www.esperimentocinema.com/wp-content/uploads/las_vegas_comparison.tiff
left dpx output from color ( dpxtoquicktimetraslator) and right dpx output from fcp (quicktimetodpxtraslator). Although the images are slightly different I think it is a quite acceptable compromise.
Click to expand...

Luca,

I see A LOT of gamma shift from left to right.

Plus...i bet both of the images looked way lighter than that in Color and on your Monitor when you did CC.

I dont know if the drakening is caused by the DPX encoding OR the AJA DPX to QT Translator though...

I asked AJA but never received a response...

Antoine

BTW, there's also another problem (see my previous post) with AJA 10 bit RGB codec, it lightens when rendered in a FCP High Precision YUV sequence...
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Luca,

I see A LOT of gamma shift from left to right.

Plus...i bet both of the images looked way lighter than that in Color and on your Monitor when you did CC.

I dont know if the drakening is caused by the DPX encoding OR the AJA DPX to QT Translator though...

I asked AJA but never received a response...

Antoine

BTW, there's also another problem (see my previous post) with AJA 10 bit RGB codec, it lightens when rendered in a FCP High Precision YUV sequence...
Click to expand...

I don't see A LOT of gamma shift, I see a bit. Anyway now I understand what you mean. About the aja 10 bit rgb: it's strange because if you look at my previous picture, the frame on the right (darker) it comes from an aja 10 bit rgb out from fcp and trasformed to dpx with quicktimetodpx traslator.
 
Holy @#@#...

They looked very different on my office desktop, and now i see them almost identical...

Did you changed something ?

Antoine
 
Just tested again today...

AJA 10 bit RGB (from AJA DPX to QT translator) rendered in High precision YUV in FCP...

gamma lift...

Antoine
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Holy @#@#...

They looked very different on my office desktop, and now i see them almost identical...

Did you changed something ?

Antoine
Click to expand...
No, I didn't do any correction. This thing is very confusing. On my macbook pro color lcd with gamma 1.8 they are really, really close. I noticed when you render out dpx from color and then you use aja dpx to quicktime traslator there's a gamma shift on the mov file. Then you send the file to fcp and when you export the file from fcp in aja 10 bit rgb and traslate it to dpx with quicktimetodpx traslator, if you compare the dpx rendered out from color and the dpx rendered out from fcp they are really, really similar.
But definitely I have to test in my studio with different monitors. Mike Burton was suggesting to use the effect gamma correction in final cut but I think it's a 8 bit effect so you will loose the 10 YUV render. Stu Maschwitz said to turn the opacity at around 90% this preserves the 10 YUV render and adjust the gamma.
 
Luca Immesi said:
No, I didn't do any correction. This thing is very confusing. On my macbook pro color lcd with gamma 1.8 they are really, really close. I noticed when you render out dpx from color and then you use aja dpx to quicktime traslator there's a gamma shift on the mov file. Then you send the file to fcp and when you export the file from fcp in aja 10 bit rgb and traslate it to dpx with quicktimetodpx traslator, if you compare the dpx rendered out from color and the dpx rendered out from fcp they are really, really similar.....
Click to expand...


EXACTLY what i mean Luca!!!!!

Bizarre...no ?

Could be easily fixed i think...

Antoine
 
Luca,

Even more confusing...

With most QT files, if you check "enable Final Cut Pro color compatibility" in QuickTime Preferences. the Gamma changes ( i'ts supposed to )

But try it with a AJA 10 bit RGB QT file converted with the AJA DPX to QT Translator...

checking and unchecking the same button in QT preferences makes no diference at all...as if it was "locked".

Oh well...i give up for today... :)

Antoine
 
I have pointed this thread to AJA support and this is the answer I got. Not to explicable but yet somthing:

Hi Ido,

FCP can handle 10-bit uncompressed RGB files. Use the AJA 10-bit codec.
Go to FCP sequence settings -> video processing and set to high precision
10-bit YUV. This setting will not alter the colorspace to YUV - basically
FCP performs as 10-bit floating point.

Let us know if you have more questions.
Best regards
Rudy

AJA Video Technical Support
 
karilla said:
I have pointed this thread to AJA support and this is the answer I got. Not to explicable but yet somthing:

Hi Ido,

FCP can handle 10-bit uncompressed RGB files. Use the AJA 10-bit codec.
Go to FCP sequence settings -> video processing and set to high precision
10-bit YUV. This setting will not alter the colorspace to YUV - basically
FCP performs as 10-bit floating point.

Let us know if you have more questions.
Best regards
Rudy

AJA Video Technical Support
Click to expand...

That's true.

I'm working longer to convert R3D with RA, RC, AJA DPXToQTTranslator and AJA QTToDPXTranslator (all FREE applications).

Do not have any problem.

And you can get the high precision 10-bit YUV as it is written above.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
That's true.

I'm working longer to convert R3D with RA, RC, AJA DPXToQTTranslator and AJA QTToDPXTranslator (all FREE applications).

Do not have any problem.

And you can get the high precision 10-bit YUV as it is written above.
Click to expand...


Sanjin,

Could you post your exact workflow and settings ?

I experiment gamma shift issues here...


thanks


Antoine
 
It seems the trick was to choose high precision 10-bit "YUV" instead of "RGB" although the target is RGB. The key point to know is "high precision 10-bit YUV doesn't alter the color space to YUV".

Thank you for that Karllia.
 
Kaku,

Doesn't work at all here...

Gamma all over the place with AJA 10 Bit RGB codec...


(at least the ones created by DPX to QT Translator...

...even viewed with the Kona Le card on a calibrated broadcast monitor...

I'm back to good basic FCP/Color workflow, t least, it doesn't shift gammas at all...


Antoine
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Kaku,

Doesn't work at all here...

Gamma all over the place with AJA 10 Bit RGB codec...


(at least the ones created by DPX to QT Translator...

...even viewed with the Kona Le card on a calibrated broadcast monitor...

I'm back to good basic FCP/Color workflow, t least, it doesn't shift gammas at all...


Antoine
Click to expand...
Antoine, from my latest tests I think this: if you export from color files with aja 10 bit rgb and then send them to final cut and then export the sequence and you compare the files (the ones from color and the sequence from fcp) with quicktime you have pretty much the same files (there's a slightly difference from changing from rgb to yuv, but the files are pretty much identical). If you export from color dpxs and trasform them with dpxtoquicktimetraslator and then send them to final cut and then export the sequence and trasform the sequence to dpxs with quicktimetodpxtraslator and you compare the dpxs (the ones from color and the ones from fcp) with quicktime you have pretty much the same files.
Although inside final cut you have gamma shift.
 
Luca Immesi said:
Antoine, from my latest tests I think this: if you export from color files with aja 10 bit rgb and then send them to final cut and then export the sequence and you compare the files (the ones from color and the sequence from fcp) with quicktime you have pretty much the same files (there's a slightly difference from changing from rgb to yuv, but the files are pretty much identical). If you export from color dpxs and trasform them with dpxtoquicktimetraslator and then send them to final cut and then export the sequence and trasform the sequence to dpxs with quicktimetodpxtraslator and you compare the dpxs (the ones from color and the ones from fcp) with quicktime you have pretty much the same files.
Although inside final cut you have gamma shift.
Click to expand...

Hi Luca,

Thanks for the test.

Which app do you use to monitor DPX ?

Antoine
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Hi Luca,

Thanks for the test.

Which app do you use to monitor DPX ?

Antoine
Click to expand...

Antione,

doesnt't mean anyrthing, you ger e-cimema or cine-tal monitor they look the same.

I would say yo have a "Psycho Killer" in your studio environment or a kind of "R3D to 4:4:4 Strafzettel-Polizei"

for your RED1 4K because you are not getting what you've paid for.

Or you didn't get it till now??!!!!!!!!
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Hi Luca,

Thanks for the test.

Which app do you use to monitor DPX ?

Antoine
Click to expand...
Dpxtoquicktimetraslator. Enlarge the two windows and compare the frames.
 
This is not funny here...

Both AJA files look way darker than what it was looking in Color... :(

Oh well...

Antoine
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top