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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DP shot 2K closeups for a 4K movie?

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Ralph McCarron

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I am the editor on this project. WTF is with DP's that say that 2K closeups are better than 4K? He shot a 4K movie and did the closeups in 2K. So that means I have to blow up the 2K closups to 4K so they will look blurry. Am I missing something here???
 
It really bothers me when DP's bake in res I can manipulate later myself from a 4K shot if thats the agreed goal. Also why couldn't the DP on your project just get closer or change lenses and shoot at 4K? lame.
 
Ouch. That's an odd choice, Ralph. The only way that would make half sense is if he thought it was for 2k release. Even then, shooting in 4k would have at least given you the choice to crop it or not. Did he shoot them at super high frame rates? Or is it dialogue? Sorry to hear
 
If you are shooting a doco and for a long interview and your interview is more about the audio you might go back to a face now and then, you might op for 2k to save on space and go back for key questions later at say 3 or 4K. But to shoot the hole thing 4K and then go to 2K for the close ups mmmmm Even 3K would help you out a bit.. Is this for theater release?
Did you ask him?
If you do Id like to know why.
 
The truth is that DPs love that softness because resembles film when is projected on the big screen.

I remember the first time I watched Mr. Popper Pinguin, shot on Alexa 2K. I didn't know it was shot in digital, and it fooled me, because it really looked like film, until I saw a close up of the eyes from the actors-actresses, and I noticed immediately that they were too sharp and bright for film, that never happens when I watch film. So I think they are trying not to make it look too video-like, thats why they want that soft look.
 
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To me, this is insane. You can always make the picture softer in post, through digital filtration and other techniques. I bet it was just a stupid mistake.

A wiser move to soften close-ups is just good lighting and good filters in production, not by degrading resolution (in my opinion). Depth of field changes, focal lengths change... too much stuff gets altered when you switch the camera into 2K. I think it's a bad idea to mix resolutions on any project.
 
i can´t hear that "film is soft" stuff anymore

Film is NOT soft. if you watch a HD scanning of a 35mm film. it´s sharp and full of details.

we just never see it before in this way (before HD and even 4K screens)

i know my first experinece with a blu ray - it was - i think a will smith movie, and the TV was on wrong settings (200 Hz or something stupid) and it looked like the "making of" shot on a digital, ultrasharp videocamera

after some minutes i realized, it´s the movie, but it looked like video: sharp, interlaced, and ... the footage still was film ... so this discussion is boring.

the projection or presentation of film causes some softness, not the footage.

same effect: you switch the same movie at a pay tv channel on SD, not HD ... do it with Knowing, looks complete like "film" - or any Red Movie you want, ...

...
and this is where Jim and Red is right from start on of building a camera: HD and Alexa and and and are not a replacement for film. Epic and F65 are.

and to shoot 2K with an Epic to get a more soften image is one of the biggest nonsense of the last weeks. 2K on the Epic has nothing, but nothing to do with a filmic image. don´t know who sees something like this in it ... (??!!)

they should more think about the choice of lenses and possibilities in post.

i can´t remember a DP, cutting down a 35mm negative into a smaller stripe and put it into his camera to get a "softer" image ;-)
 
Jan Reiff said:
i can´t hear that "film is soft" stuff anymore. Film is NOT soft. if you watch a HD scanning of a 35mm film. it´s sharp and full of details.
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It depends on the film. I've heard too many times from DPs over the last 20 years, "sharpness is not our friend." This is particularly true for actors of a certain age.

i know my first experinece with a blu ray - it was - i think a will smith movie, and the TV was on wrong settings (200 Hz or something stupid) and it looked like the "making of" shot on a digital, ultrasharp videocamera...
Click to expand...

Read this:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57569102-221/what-is-the-soap-opera-effect/

Monitor setup is critical​ on this stuff.
 
Jason Diamond said:
It really bothers me when DP's bake in res I can manipulate later myself from a 4K shot if thats the agreed goal. Also why couldn't the DP on your project just get closer or change lenses and shoot at 4K? lame.
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Yep. Lame.

Though I generally try to get it right as rain in camera, but allow for some minor tweakage in post. Relying on post folks to make the right decisions is often as perilous as baking color or scale into the files. At least we don't deal with pulldown anymore. I cant even count the amount of times I've seen a mograph designer or editor butcher pulldown and render out graphics or speed ramps on interlaced footage. Lame-er. ;)
 
yes , but this "soap" effect is what i mean: a film, shot on 35mm, looks like "video", vey sharp, very clean, when it is presented in HD and wrong setting.
so, ... Film is not soft, nativ.
to say, Epic is too sharp is nonsense.
we have 2013, the presentation changed, that´s all.
F65 and especially Dragon are the real replacement for film.
other stuff: do it in post.
 
Ralph McCarron said:
I am the editor on this project. WTF is with DP's that say that 2K closeups are better than 4K? He shot a 4K movie and did the closeups in 2K. So that means I have to blow up the 2K closups to 4K so they will look blurry. Am I missing something here???
Click to expand...

The DP is simply a moron and should be fired from the business.
 
Ralph McCarron said:
I am the editor on this project. WTF is with DP's that say that 2K closeups are better than 4K? He shot a 4K movie and did the closeups in 2K. So that means I have to blow up the 2K closups to 4K so they will look blurry. Am I missing something here???
Click to expand...

Yes, you are missing the fact that you are the editor and you don't get to decide or question matters related to the visual aesthetic. Unless that visual aethetic is at the cost of same shots used in both full resolution and cropped and affecting your cut.

No it will not look "blurry", it will look less detailed.
Compared to a 5K material. Depending on the edit.

If the same shot is being used for close up and a wider shot, cinematography and directing may be debatable. Depending on the context. If the DP used just the 2K portion of those shots deliberately for a lower resolution, it is an aesthetic decision, non-debatable by anyone who's not responsible for the image.
 
if you want to flatter your talent..film is best and very sharp...check with your a.c. on that...every job has it's own particular requirements...camera needs...(film or digital) (i own both)....if I'm working with name talent I take out the film camera...and for me it saves money because almost no post is required
 
Jan,

Film and digital are two completely different mediums...you can't compare or replace one or the other
the images are made completely differently...and each have a use (i own both)
 
but the most people compare digital to film. still.
 
It sounds like more the DP was doing a mother daughter setup (G&E term "same thing but tighter") but was too lazy to swap to a tighter lens. I worked with a few DP's that did this cause they didn't think they had time to swap lenses or just being lazy. Either way 2k is pretty much only there for high speed needs on RED. I never leave 5kws unless I need to do higher then 121fps.
 
it is said that he changed the settings ... not that he shoot all in 2K ...
for close ups a 2K may be enough for TV, of course

but one thing is not right

(which is the broadcast format here in europe)

in germany, we have all channels in HD (and it was a long time waiting) and SD commercials on the HD channel are not coming out very nice honestly
 
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