DP-Director Relationship

[Mike Finegan]

easiest solution (even if it is talent asking for more light so they look pretty - is sure let's shoot it both ways
If you are correct editor will just lose the producer take - if you are wrong it is in the bag
Also the comment about losing face in front of producer and talent is valid - director probably pulled rank since you had an audience

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

The Director said, no keep it on. Tried to show him in the monitor what it was doing to the shot. He LOUDLY exclaimed "I didn't ask for any opinion just do it!". What would your reaction be to that? Stand for it? Shut up and take the bad shot? As DP, shouldn't the lighting and shot be your call? Granted, director is there to set up things. However, it's pretty much lighting 101 that he was unaware of and just being a hothead over. Your thoughts? interested to know

Light is your call but the whole shoot is his. Dealing with inflated Egos comes with an occupation.
Some people can learn by consideration in advance, some just have to learn through screw-ups.

 

[Justin McAleece]

If I have a look or shot or angle that I know I prefer way over what a director/producer will want to change it to then I always roll on it for a second. At least then it's in the can and later when they realize my idea was better (hopefully) we can look at the other option and know why. I've also used this many times where I am pretty sure that I love a particular angle but the director is not stoked on it. I will roll it for 2 seconds then after we've evaluated a few more angles that I don't like as much I might pitch the original once again. If I'm confident in my opinion they will almost always go back to the original. This works quite well for me. It doesn't touch on all of what you have going on here, but it can be a useful tool.

 

[Elsie N]

In my experience if my right-hand director self slaps my left-hand DP self and over-rides my DP self on a shoot, I pat myself on my post-butt with both hands for rescuing it in R3D post.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Recently worked on a documentary project as DP. The Director, a supposed friend, the Producer, (i use the producer term loosely as he's a self-proclaimed producer with any knowledge or skills) and myself were the only ones on set that day. Interviewing someone in an office with strong, cool natural light coming in from behind the subject's left side, couldn't darken it or shade it completely. The Director turned on the office lights. They were hot tungsten lights that directly shown on the right side of the subjects face.

Jesus, mixed daylights and fluorescents are a total nightmare. You were right. The director should've given you enough time to match the daylight with hard lights on set without having to turn on the overhead fluorescents. The alternative would be to get color-corrected fluorescents, but this rarely happens with small crews and low budgets.

All you can do is warn them, "this will be a big problem for post because of the massive mix in color temperature," and then roll and give them what they ask for. I don't have a problem with mixed lighting if it's a heightened drama or a horror movie or something that's supposed to look really weird and unnatural. God help you if it's anything that's supposed to look "normal" or flattering to the actors.

There really is no way to deal with ignorance from somebody who wields all the power on a set (particularly the director or a producer), and it's even worse when it's arrogant ignorance.

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

He is not a good director.
Good ones learn to listen and respect every single person on set.
And they are good communicators.

I come from photography, and I know how to light sets. When I work with a DP, I sometime give detailed directions, but I never ever disrespect the DP (or others).
The director decides at the end. Saying "I understand, but I prefer to keep them the light on", is very different then "I don't want your opinion".

It could also be that there are other factors involved (talent being nervous, other timing issues), but none justifies lack of respect and decent communication.
Being an unpaid work with a good friend, my advice is for you to communicate with him in a nice way to have him shift attitude, or for you to understand why he answered that way. If not, let him be and quit the job.

 

[Elsie N]

He is not a good director.
Good ones learn to listen and respect every single person on set.
And they are good communicators.

I come from photography, and I know how to light sets. When I work with a DP, I sometime give detailed directions, but I never ever disrespect the DP (or others).
The director decides at the end. Saying "I understand, but I prefer to keep them the light on", is very different then "I don't want your opinion".

It could also be that there are other factors involved (talent being nervous, other timing issues), but none justifies lack of respect and decent communication.
Being an unpaid work with a good friend, my advice is for you to communicate with him in a nice way to have him shift attitude, or for you to understand why he answered that way. If not, let him be and quit the job.

I disagree with quitting the job.

If the abuse isn't physical but merely verbal, put on a headset that plays music, finish the job, and ask they not put your name in the credits if their decisions lead to really bad results. Asking out of the credits is the most tactful insult a director or producer can receive.

Only Prima Donna actors are allowed to walk out on a production.

 

[M Most]

The editor will always - I repeat, always - choose footage based on performance. Period. If the performance on the lighting setup that camera prefers is better, that will be in the cut. If the one on the setup that camera doesn't prefer is better, that will be the one in the cut. Lighting isn't completely unimportant in the scheme of things, but performance is the primary, and frankly, the only criteria in shot selection once it gets to the cutting room. That's the fact, whether the camera department likes it or not. Lighting issues can at least to some degree be addressed in post. Performance can not.

 

[Greg M]

The editor will always - I repeat, always - choose footage based on performance. Period. If the performance on the lighting setup that camera prefers is better, that will be in the cut. If the one on the setup that camera doesn't prefer is better, that will be the one in the cut. Lighting isn't completely unimportant in the scheme of things, but performance is the primary, and frankly, the only criteria in shot selection once it gets to the cutting room. That's the fact, whether the camera department likes it or not. Lighting issues can at least to some degree be addressed in post. Performance can not.

this.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Only Prima Donna actors are allowed to walk out on a production.

Are you serious? If I am abused or mistreated in any way, physically, verbally or otherwise, its sayonara, good riddance to you. Life is too short to work with assholes and I won't waste my time. and also, last I checked I believe we are free to quit anytime...

 

[Hugh Scully]

HDR changes this. You can actually get a way with mixed color lighting.

That's interesting. Sometimes mixed light can work and I'm not religious about it but I work pretty hard not to mix color temperatures because I can white balance to a single color temp in camera or in post to protect skintones. How does HDR change that? What technique with HDR makes matching color temperature a non-issue?

 

[Christian Moriarty]

The answer is: "sure" and record your chart 1st

 

[Elsie N]

Are you serious? If I am abused or mistreated in any way, physically, verbally or otherwise, its sayonara, good riddance to you. Life is too short to work with assholes and I won't waste my time. and also, last I checked I believe we are free to quit anytime...

And the Producer and/or Director plus cast and crew you walked out on tells anyone who will listen that you quit on them during a production. Anyone hearing this doesn't care about the details, but just that you quit on the production.

You may never know how many jobs you lost due to your actions.

So yes, I am serious. '-)

 

[Sabovic Adis]

And the Producer and/or Director plus cast and crew you walked out on tells anyone who will listen that you quit on them during a production. Anyone hearing this doesn't care about the details, but just that you quit on the production.

You may never know how many jobs you lost due to your actions.

So yes, I am serious. '-)

Good jobs or bad jobs? :biggrin:

 

[Daniel Stilling]

And the Producer and/or Director plus cast and crew you walked out on tells anyone who will listen that you quit on them during a production. Anyone hearing this doesn't care about the details, but just that you quit on the production.

You may never know how many jobs you lost due to your actions.

So yes, I am serious. '-)

People quit all the time. The first reaction from anyone that will listen is: "why?" If you are quitting on justifiable grounds, the reaction is quite the opposite. Respect is given. The couple of times I had to do that, there were only positive reactions my way.
But that's besides the point. If you let yourself be enslaved on a job where you are being made to feel miserable due to abuse, because you are afraid of what ifs, you are wasting your life, giving the abuser power over you and helping perpetuate the issue.
Also understand that I'm not advocating for people to quit willy nilly, just because the going gets rough. There has to be a reason and a good one. But if that is the case you should move on without fear. Stand for decency, keep your head high and make the change.

 

[Elsie N]

People quit all the time. The first reaction from anyone that will listen is: "why?" If you are quitting on justifiable grounds, the reaction is quite the opposite. Respect is given. The couple of times I had to do that, there were only positive reactions my way.
But that's besides the point. If you let yourself be enslaved on a job where you are being made to feel miserable due to abuse, because you are afraid of what ifs, you are wasting your life, giving the abuser power over you and helping perpetuate the issue.
Also understand that I'm not advocating for people to quit willy nilly, just because the going gets rough. There has to be a reason and a good one. But if that is the case you should move on without fear. Stand for decency, keep your head high and make the change.

Daniel, in thinking back to my earlier years I probably tried to be a "Man for all seasons" as I presume you to be.

But once I learned that life as we know it and the universe itself is just one big hologram... meh.

'-)

 

[Elsie N]

Good jobs or bad jobs? :biggrin:

As long as the checks don't bounce, there are no bad jobs. '-)

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

The editor will always - I repeat, always - choose footage based on performance. Period. If the performance on the lighting setup that camera prefers is better, that will be in the cut. If the one on the setup that camera doesn't prefer is better, that will be the one in the cut. Lighting isn't completely unimportant in the scheme of things, but performance is the primary, and frankly, the only criteria in shot selection once it gets to the cutting room. That's the fact, whether the camera department likes it or not. Lighting issues can at least to some degree be addressed in post. Performance can not.

If you let yourself be enslaved on a job where you are being made to feel miserable due to abuse, because you are afraid of what ifs, you are wasting your life, giving the abuser power over you and helping perpetuate the issue.
Also understand that I'm not advocating for people to quit willy nilly, just because the going gets rough. There has to be a reason and a good one. But if that is the case you should move on without fear. Stand for decency, keep your head high and make the change.

Great quotes.

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

I think it is NOT good to walk away on set. You can resign your future involvement in a job or project if you are unhappy.

Said so, sounds like an unpaid documentary with just a director and a producer, therefore I categorize it as a favor. Not necessarily a job.
I say you can definitively quit if you are being disrespected while doing a favor.

 

[Elsie N]

I think it is NOT good to walk away on set. You can resign your future involvement in a job or project if you are unhappy.

Said so, sounds like an unpaid documentary with just a director and a producer, therefore I categorize it as a favor. Not necessarily a job.
I say you can definitively quit if you are being disrespected while doing a favor.

Agree with your assessment.