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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DP-Director Relationship

M

Mark A. Moritz

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Recently worked on a documentary project as DP. The Director, a supposed friend, the Producer, (i use the producer term loosely as he's a self-proclaimed producer with any knowledge or skills) and myself were the only ones on set that day. Interviewing someone in an office with strong, cool natural light coming in from behind the subject's left side, couldn't darken it or shade it completely. The Director turned on the office lights. They were hot tungsten lights that directly shown on the right side of the subjects face.
As DP, i said, let's turn off the lights. There was enough natural light coming in to expose properly, and shooting on an Epic-W, a lot of latitude to brighten in post if need be. The Director said, no keep it on. Tried to show him in the monitor what it was doing to the shot. He LOUDLY exclaimed "I didn't ask for any opinion just do it!". What would your reaction be to that? Stand for it? Shut up and take the bad shot? As DP, shouldn't the lighting and shot be your call? Granted, director is there to set up things. However, it's pretty much lighting 101 that he was unaware of and just being a hothead over. Your thoughts? interested to know
 
Had lights available in the van but Room was very small and time was super limited with the interviewee
 
A great producer, David Valdez once said, and I believe he was quoting an even greater producer, "if you get into a fight with the talent never punch them in the face" and although I didn't ask I don't think that rule applies to DP's or directors. It sounds like with the talent sitting there the director was getting frustrated with your setup, maybe this was the first setup of the doc and you had not established a look yet, and he pulled a Bill O'Reily and said screw it, we'll do it live/ fix it in post..... Now we all know what happened to Bill but did you know the primary purpose of bonding companies is to play the bad guy and fire crybaby DP's and incompetent directors on behalf of the producers? It might be one of those things that you should not have given a second thought to....
 
i hear what you're saying Remington. The funny thing is, it was like the 15th interview in the doc. Five days of shooting deep. My setup was done, exposure set, all ready to go. Then it was the dumb producer who said oh, there's more lights in here we can turn on. Once he did, i said no, we should keep them off. That's when the director chimed in and said leave them on. As I tried to quickly explain why it would complicate things and degrade the shot, was when he said that he didn't ask for an opinion. What's of course the kicker to it, is i'm the only one of the group with any colorgrading knowledge & experience. So it was easy for me to know the difficulties it would bring in post trying to smooth out the harsh lighting difference. I recognize, sometimes you can't always get an ideal ONE temperature of light on the subject. In this case, we could have with the flip of a lightswitch. Just makes me leery to work with that director again as his handling was loud, somewhat embarrassing to both him & i, and in my opinion, as i told im later, if he wants to control the camera and lighting (which is what he did on his first two films that were VERY poorly shot), then he would be better off hiring a cheap camera operator as opposed to a real DP. No need to have me with my equipment, knowledge, and experience on board if there's no need for any input. Yes, a paycheck is a paycheck. But this wasn't a paycheck based job. It was being done as more of a favor. Their budget never would have allowed for me and my equipment to even drive to their location, let alone be the DP and equipment provider.
 
If that director is truly Your friend (and You his) do what he says! If not, quit immediately - and let somebody else be credited with "bad lighting" or "bad photography"! Directors may direct but You're not an actor...:biggrin:
 
I have a cardinal rule: Never work with assholes that disrespect me.
That came from working 2 seasons of a popular TV show as a Steadicam/Camera Operator with the worst POS human trash DP to ever walk the Earth... That was about a decade ago. Since then, I have been fairly successful and getting better, more challenging and rewarding gigs as a DP, while shedding a few toxic relationships in the way. If you let others disrespect you, you are disrespecting yourself and not valuing yourself at your full worth.
So my advice for you is to never work with this "Director" again. And I put his title in quotation marks, because he really isn't. If he had risen to this position by merit, he would know a thing or 2 about how to value the people he works with and their professional opinion, which he obviously didn't.
Had it been me, there, on the day, after that outburst, I would have taken the Director to the side and inform him that I would finish the scheduled day, but that I wouldn't be returning to this job, and explain to him why, and I would never look back.
 
I'd opt for a brief sidebar away from the producer. Division of labor and the associated decision making exists for a reason, no matter how small the crew.
 
It's tough when you have to hear stuff like that on set. You explained your POV, that mixing color temperatures will look like crap, but you didn't talk about why they put on the lights in the first place. Ask them. Producers will forever look at a monitor and say "that's too dark." I get it all the time. Telling them the camera is so good that you can pull details out of the shadows is no help. If he says "it's too dark" or implies that by turning on random lights, it is incumbent on you to solve THAT problem in a way that will achieve their results (a brighter image) and yours (matching light color). After you figure out why they object to your lighting, then tell them you need a minute, quickly set up a daylight fill. Let the natural light pour in and fill it with a kino or a bounce. You have to have that stuff with you, not in the truck. Conversely, you could flag the daylight (use the blinds?), off the talent and balance to the ambient light. You could move the talent so that the daylight is more of a back light or kicker too, that's not too bad mixed with... well whatever's up there. If their problem is they want to see more of the office, you can get away with them turning on some office lights in the background, as long as that light doesn't hit the talent it won't be too bad. Solve the problem.

Then, I'd tell my friend it was my last day for snapping at me like that, he'll say that he's sorry, "c'mon man" and you'll be back at it. If they hired you, you're not an injured innocent, you're the DP. Just do your job.
 
If the shot looks too dark but you don't want to change the light then try a higher ISO setting. This will brighten the shot on the monitor but won't actually change what you shoot as ISO can be changed back in post.

That said, if I shoot for a director then the director has the last word. The director gets the credit and the blame for the end result. If you explained properly what your motivation is for the shot but the director wants it different then that's that. Someone being disrespectful or abusive is something else though and that's for you to decide if you can live with it or not.
 
About 10 years ago I was shooting a rock star on a film. He was all bent out of shape and having a hissy fiit and told me the light was in the wrong place and I absolutely had to move it. I asked him where he would have me place it and I put it there. About a year later I bumped into him in Tokyo and he asked me why he looked so bad in the film (it was the worst lighting I have ever seen) I reminded him how that scene went down. In the end I felt pretty great about it even though it made my work look bad. It will most likely be the last time he tries to relight. The director may be your friend but he sounds like a moron. Avoid working with him if you want to maintain your sense of self respect.
 
since this sounds like a very small production and even smaller crew...the first question is who is paying you?
If its the director, then give him what he wants...then decide later if you want to work with him again.

Bottom line in a situation like this...whoever is paying is in charge (regardless of title) and makes the final call. If you feel like this decision reflects poorly on you, then refuse to work for him next time.
 
It's the director's choice (or the producer's choice) ultimately.

But it's your choice whether or not you want to work with them again.
 
sander kamp said:
If the shot looks too dark but you don't want to change the light then try a higher ISO setting. This will brighten the shot on the monitor but won't actually change what you shoot as ISO can be changed back in post.
Click to expand...

Or be even sneakier and just turn up the brightness on the monitor.... that might fool them ;-) As they seem to be very inexperienced?
 
I have had bad experiences in the past and so I routinely say no to projects where I think I have to deal with a***holes. I learnt my lesson shooting for a low budget film where the director had no clue about cinematography/cameras/lighting. And he had a "AD" who was equally clueless. I quit that project mid-way and suffered financially. But learnt a big lesson.

Since then in some projects, I have learnt to ask for couple of more takes saying that it is better to have more options to decide on the editing table. After the first take, I do some changes as I think fit.

If the Director/producer is stupid, then better that you just shut your monitor and use an EVF to shoot. After the take, tell the director that the monitor is crappy so replay is poor and it will be fine in post. :)

As others have suggested, just pull out from projects where they abuse and disrespect you. In the long run it is better strategy. People will value you more if you value yourself.
 
Matt W. said:
It's the director's choice (or the producer's choice) ultimately.

But it's your choice whether or not you want to work with them again.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with this. Being a team player and taking other team members' ideas into consideration when making a decision is one thing, but being hired as a professional to do a specific task to the best of your ability with the caveat or understanding that someone with a different title can override you on technical decisions is another. As I said previously, division of labor exists for a reason. Yes, the venn diagram of a set overlaps, but didn't the so-called director and so-called producer have things they needed to be tending to in order to ensure the interview went smoothly? Surely, if they're both meddling in what you're doing, they're leaving some boxes unchecked.
If that's the case, do the director/producer get to make decisions on what mic to use and where to keep the levels on the audio if they so choose?
 
Division of labor exists, but on any shoot, it's the director's vision, and DP's choice to execute that.

A flawed director, will ask for flawed choices.

A good DP can try and cajole an inexperienced director into better choices.

But ultimately, the director has final say, right or wrong.

This is why a great rapport btw director and dp is crucial, and can take many years. And like all relationships, they can become intimate, fraught, and exciting.

Best of luck
 
As a Director I echo Sander's words with some modifications. When the piece comes out great, everybody jumps in to share the credit, if it's bad it's the Director's fault.

People on crews sometimes don't realize that they have a limited view of the whole project. Yes in this instance you may have given an accurate note that could apply to that moment. But, since you can't have insight over every reason for decisions the Director faces you may not understand how their incidental reasoning makes sense. A shoot/set is the Director's world, every aspect of it, and the crew's job do their best to comprehend what that world is and then to improve upon it. I agree that part of that asks you to raise the issue, but from my perspective the fact that you've taken to this forum to vent about the response you got leads me to believe that it's likely there's also an issue with you.

My opinion is that you have either the choices to work less by not taking jobs from those who you disagree with, not work because you develop a reputation as difficult to work with, only do work where you're in charge and guaranteed to get your way, or lastly accept the job and do everything you can to make the Director's vision as good as it can be without any attitude. Imagine someone working for you filming a wedding and they keep challenging the way you already know works to get the job done, or a specific style your clients have asked for. What would you think of that person?

I have been around a lot of different crew situations and this is a particular pet peeve for me, I apologize if my tone is too harsh as it is difficult to separate my own history from your concerns. I took the time to reply with the hope to help.
 
Hugh Scully said:
It's tough when you have to hear stuff like that on set. You explained your POV, that mixing color temperatures will look like crap
Click to expand...
HDR changes this. You can actually get a way with mixed color lighting.

Martin, have you spoken to your friend since this incident? If he is your friend, you should at least try and deal with it.

I know I can be a large ass at times. I do feel bad about it later though. Sometimes I even acknowledge it and apologize, up that is rare. It really depends on whio it was with. My fest friend at the time, did not speak to me for at least four years after a blow up. I missed her and sent an apology email one day.
 
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