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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Down Converter

The AJA converters are great. But... 720p output from RED is a down-conversion! It's 2008, holy jeebus, buy an HD monitor already. It's hard enough to judge focus or work with a 4K image on a 720p output, I wouldn't want to do it (let alone guaranty any results) if I had to do it with that 720p signal downcoverted to SD. Sure a good focus puller will eliminate most of the focus issues of this equation, but come on. If you're using it for monitoring, it's time to buy the HD monitor -- not a whole lot different in price from the converter these days.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The AJA converters are great. But... 720p output from RED is a down-conversion! It's 2008, holy jeebus, buy an HD monitor already. It's hard enough to judge focus or work with a 4K image on a 720p output, I wouldn't want to do it (let alone guaranty any results) if I had to do it with that 720p signal downcoverted to SD. Sure a good focus puller will eliminate most of the focus issues of this equation, but come on. If you're using it for monitoring, it's time to buy the HD monitor -- not a whole lot different in price from the converter these days.
Click to expand...

I think the main problem is transmitting HD. There's not a lot of options out there and the ones on their way are pretty expensive. The steadicam guys have all invested in gear and might not wanna cash out 6K+ and then monitors on top of that.
 
Hi Jeff,

Transmitting an NTSC video signal is extremely use full on set. The AD dept can walk around with cheap handheld B&W tv's and see the exact frame, whats going on at what time. This can be a life saver for placing extras on a big set, cueing actors, and actions on complex shots.

The dolly grip gets on cartelinied to the push bar, and he can see if he needs to drift right or left to avoid blocking an actor when one leans in on an over, etc.

The video assist guy ussually has a pile of these little tv's that they hand out to who ever needs one

I don't think anyone is planning on monitoring an NTSC signal for image evaluation. Just the convienience of transmitting.

Cheers,

Nick
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The AJA converters are great. But... 720p output from RED is a down-conversion! It's 2008, holy jeebus, buy an HD monitor already. It's hard enough to judge focus or work with a 4K image on a 720p output, I wouldn't want to do it (let alone guaranty any results) if I had to do it with that 720p signal downcoverted to SD. Sure a good focus puller will eliminate most of the focus issues of this equation, but come on. If you're using it for monitoring, it's time to buy the HD monitor -- not a whole lot different in price from the converter these days.
Click to expand...
Well, you're right, but when using a steadicam, high brightness and contrast are much more important than high definition. You won't be focusing on this monitor anyway. Plus, you already have a monitor on the steadicam (like a suberbright Cinemonitor IIIA transvideo for example). Quite a lot of operators are still using greenscreen CRT monitors on their rigs. :wink:

There are few high brightness HD monitors on the market (hummingbird, and the new Tiffen monitors that come on the new steadicams), but these are very expensive, much much more than a downconverter.

Plus, what about wireless monitoring ? As far as I know there aren't any afordable wireless systems that are able to transmit HD ? So even if you have an HD monitor, you still need a downconverter...

Nils.
 
Slinnn said:
Thanks, $299 sound very nice !
It's only HDMI but that should be ok with the RED...
Did they mention when they'll start shipping ?
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Perfect! I've been waiting for something like this! Any word on when?
 
Slinnn said:
It's only HDMI but that should be ok with the RED...
Did they mention when they'll start shipping ?
Click to expand...


As usual, they said that it would be out "soon" so your guess is as good as mine.

For monitoring on SD, a downconverted HDMI signal will probably look no different from a downconverted HD-SDI signal.
 
ozcam said:
As usual, they said that it would be out "soon" so your guess is as good as mine.
Click to expand...
Well then, wait and see...:glare:

ozcam said:
For monitoring on SD, a downconverted HDMI signal will probably look no different from a downconverted HD-SDI signal.
Click to expand...
Quality should be the same through HDMI and HDSDI.
I just meant it's less versatile, as most of the other cameras don't have HDMI outs, only HDSDI. So you can only use it with the RED.
But hey, for such a low price, who cares...
 
The cable pictured is very long and a dual Y-split for powering two devices at one. It means that you'll end up with a bunch of ugly extra cable hanging off your camera. Abel (and others) can make you a custom cable to exactly the length you desire so that it tucks neatly out of the way. This is a bigger issue than you might think, especially when all of the little cables for various accessories begin to pile on.

In our Rental Dept., we generally use very short cables for this, perhaps 8" (the one from B&H is I believe six feet). Anton Bauer makes a great little plate that goes between the mount point of the camera and the battery plate, and this can accept accessory mounting plates. We drill a mount point onto our plates so that we can directly attach the AJA downconverter, so it just lives there right next to the battery.

Back when I owned my own personal Aaton camera package, I was all about custom cables. My rig was set up exactly how I liked it and there was nothing ever hanging loose or otherwise in my way. I always had some spare standard cables in the kit should someone wish to set it up differently, but that was a rare event. There's a lot to be said for neat & clean when you're working with the thing day in & out for weeks on end. The last thing you want to think about is making the darn thing work right. There's far more important things to do on set.
 
That HDMI transmitter is designed to be mounted in a cabinet and send signals to a flat screen tv without a bunch of wires that require cutting holes in walls or just hanging out all ugly. It is not meant to mount on a moving camera. Having seen people attempt to adopt similar consumer technology for wireless SD transmission, I can say that in this application you would likely get constant dropouts to the point of unuseability.
 
Mitch Gross said:
That HDMI transmitter is designed to be mounted in a cabinet and send signals to a flat screen tv without a bunch of wires that require cutting holes in walls or just hanging out all ugly. It is not meant to mount on a moving camera. Having seen people attempt to adopt similar consumer technology for wireless SD transmission, I can say that in this application you would likely get constant dropouts to the point of unuseability.
Click to expand...

Mitch...are you talking about the Gefen or something else?

The Gefen Scaler is not wireless. It also looks to be about the same size as an AJA Downconverter. Obviously its all theory until tested with the RED HDMI output but I can't see any obvious reason why it wouldn't work.

Personally, I'm probably going to go for an AJA ioHD anyway. Tested that with RED #1124 last week and it worked a treat. Obviously you are not going to attach one of those babies to the camera. It has some great RED-post applications and can simply be set up as a downconverter for on set applications. Out in the field (which is how we did 90% of our tests) would be a different matter entirely but the RED LCD is pretty good and nothing beats good old hands on "getting to know your lenses" for critical focus issues.

Just putting the Gefen out there because it is the only budget (ie less than $500) item I have found so far and I've been searching for a low cost in field RED to SD solution for nearly a year.

Cheers

Cam
 
Paul Kalbach said:
The Gefen unit's specs say it supports 480i to 1080i HDMI input resolutions. Sounds like 720P could be a problem.
Click to expand...

In HDTV marketing speak, when a range like 480i to 1080i is stated, then it's usually implied that 720p is included.

Good point y'all about the wireless transmission. I guess I mis-read the original post, and I just thought he was looking for a way to monitor on the steadicam. Ooops, my bad. :blush:

Right now, the only wireless HD transmitters I know of that won't break the bank are consumer grade and typically regarded as junk, even in consumer AV circles. The couple that do work reliably (for static installations) butcher the image through over compression.
 
Sergei said:
I use the HD2SD from www.redbytedesign.com
I bought it from www.markertek.com, it's sold in the US under Wohler brand.
Costs less than AJA
Click to expand...

Typical isnt it. I bought my HD2SD when the AJA was still $2k and the HS2SD was $1550, then they go and half the price of the AJA! The HD2SD is still a great unit though, and i have never had any problems with it, even in the heat of the Saudi desert.
 
ozcam said:
This is a soon to be product so obviously untested, but looks like a promising and relatively cheap device...

http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/gtvproduct.jsp?prod_id=5280

I'm not associated with any 3rd parties but this was passed on to me by a Gefen sales rep.
Click to expand...
The Gefen unit seems to be available now (HDMI to composite for $299), has anybody tried it with a Red ? It's 3-4 times cheaper than any other downconverter I've seen so far...

Power input is 5V, is there a way to power it directly from the DTap ?

Thanks,
Nils.
 
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