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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Down Conversion Module with Composite SD Video Out

I Bloom

I Bloom

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The advantages of composite video for working on set:

--Extremely long transmission distance. HDSDI taps out after about 200 ft of BNC

--Easy to transmit wirelessly.

--Works well with low cost wireless set monitors.

--Easy to record for on playback purposes, for example by a PA with a DVD recorder in video village.

--Plays well with tried and true steadicam rigs.

In general SD composite video still has tons of uses on a film set for all of the people working on the frame other than the operator.

The Aja HD10MD30 is great but it needs a power source, needs to be mounted on the camera and is in general clunky and increases cable clutter.

SD out will is a module feature I would buy.

IBloom
 
Sounds good! 480i/P and all other standards.
 
I understand you point and you might be right but:

If we have to buy it from red how about we ask for something more revolutionary?

Maybe Red could sell a transmission module that used wavelet compression and decompression with minimal lag. Red could do some pixel binning with pre-debayer data that is then compressed into a tiny data packet. The reciever would have to be smart but it would be worth it. I'm getting used to HD and I'd rather not go back to SD composite for my wireless pictures unless I really have to.

Red transmit about $2000... complete bargain!

They would also sell more monitors if they could work with it.

regards

Michael L
 
could you not use the apparently extremely low data rate of REDRAY to transmit this? and being that the encode/decode is already working it should be "easier" to program the send/recieve paths via boardsets no?
 
That sounds great. But the point of composite out is to make things is easy and cheap to accomplish on set. Many task that require monitoring don't need the best image quality. Composite video is still the most widely compatible signal in our industry. What your proposing sounds great, but you have definitely missed the point.

IBloom
 
Just forget composite

Just forget composite

I Bloom said:
That sounds great. But the point of composite out is to make things is easy and cheap to accomplish on set. Many task that require monitoring don't need the best image quality. Composite video is still the most widely compatible signal in our industry. What your proposing sounds great, but you have definitely missed the point.

IBloom
Click to expand...
Composite video is a horrible way to cripple otherwise nice looking signal.
I felt embarassed every time I had to explain to my customers that it would look great only if they let it stay digital. It made my products look bad. I promised myself never go back to it....:emote_headwall:
 
Yes but the steadi cam guy still uses it. The playback guy might still use it. The audio guy that wants a feed might only have SD monitors. The RedByte is nice but again Ian's whole point is, SD composite is the lowest common denominator signal but the
AJA and the Redbyte are external devices that add to the clutter and need external power.

If the I/O module or even an additional contained module can handle this inside of a typical camera form factor that would be swell. The best would be if it was a malleable software switch.
 
After mounting a canatrans to a camera you can buy a wireless SD monitor for about $100. That means every dept. on set can carry around a constant view of the frame for a very reasonable cost. Does it look great... of course not, that's why we want 1080p output as well.
 
cheap monitors

cheap monitors

I Bloom said:
After mounting a canatrans to a camera you can buy a wireless SD monitor for about $100. That means every dept. on set can carry around a constant view of the frame for a very reasonable cost. Does it look great... of course not, that's why we want 1080p output as well.
Click to expand...
Other than legacy there is no reason for analog monitors to cost more than digital. In fact digital should be cheaper because there is no a2d converter chip.
And the picture looks much better. This awfull legacy should be abandoned asap and Red is a good place to start.
 
SD is a must have. The ability to transmit an SD signal on VHF is great. PA cueing extras on a big scene? Handheld TV can see the shot. Electrician setting a light way far away from camera? Same thing, they can tell if they are in or not with their little watchman. It doesn't need to look good, it doesn't even need to be in color, it just needs to show the frame the camera sees. Having 10 microwave HD receivers connected to 10 transvideo monitors is a little cost prohibitive. Plus, grips break them.

Nick
 
SD vs NTSC

SD vs NTSC

Nick Gardner said:
SD is a must have. The ability to transmit an SD signal on VHF is great. PA cueing extras on a big scene? Handheld TV can see the shot. Electrician setting a light way far away from camera? Same thing, they can tell if they are in or not with their little watchman. It doesn't need to look good, it doesn't even need to be in color, it just needs to show the frame the camera sees. Having 10 microwave HD receivers connected to 10 transvideo monitors is a little cost prohibitive. Plus, grips break them.

Nick
Click to expand...
SD does not equal NTSC- NTSC is just an awfull way to display SD rooted in the '50.
As far as UHF transmission: are you aware that in this country it's highly illegal to transmit unlicenced UHF signal? The fine was $10k per occurence as well as $1000 per unit sold and mandatory buyback. Nobody with the right mind would make a product violating FCC rules. All these Cantrans, Transvideo and such are marked not for domestic use: the fact that production uses them does not change facts, sooner or later they all will get caught...
 
No one here is saying that NTSC via VHF / UHF is the BEST solution. However, it is the only economical solution that provides unlimited wireless monitor access that is currently available.

Yes it is technically illegal. However this law is aimed at a far higher reaching signal broadcast than a simple 200 ft radius. There are no FCC "detectives" patrolling the streets looking for contra-ban modulas's and transvideos.

Would we prefer a well designed, more robust (signal and physically) transfer protocol that is economical? Absolutely. Is that going to happen tomorrow for my next shoot? No. Would I like the new cameras to work seamlessly with the existing infrastructure? Yes!
Will I be excited when a new and better way is developed and RED makes a module that works with that too? yes!
 
sooner or later they all will get caught...
Click to expand...

Well in twenty years of being on film sets where this type of system is used, I've never seen anybody get bundled into a black van by FCC goons. These systems are in use everywhere, because ti's the best solution to the problem. A better system would be welcome, but how are you going to compete with the cost of something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/CASIO-HANDHELD-...ions?hash=item3a522cdffd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Hell, I'm all about everybody gets a camwave and transvideo HD monitor, but that's not even practical size wise for running around with.

Nick
 
It is indeed a shame to limit monitoring to SD analog. The ideal routine is to transmit with a high-quality HD transmitter like the Camwave or the upcoming Boxx or Titan HD units, delivering a rock-solid, uncompromised signal to a reference monitor and/or video village. At the receiving end, a downconverter and RF transmitter like the Modulus or Canatrans then broadcasts the signal on TV bands for the sound mixer, AD's or anyone else using inexpensive handheld units. This is actually preferable to transmitting from a moving camera as the TX will be stationary and delivering a more reliable signal, plus it can be mounted above everyone's heads etc.

I recently acquired a CAMWAVE and will be assembling a tidy little package incorporating the receiver, downconverter and RF transmitter with unified power source for just this purpose. I think this covers all bases and is the best way to go.

By the way, the Modulus 5000 has been announced; it's like an updated 3000 with integrated downconverter, which would avoid some of the cabling and real estate issues as described here. Anyone who has dealt with having their 2000 or 3000 units serviced back east will likely join me in expressing "caveat emptor".
 
i am on set right now, witnessing EXACTLY what ian is talking about. i see a 2nd AD with a sony watchman. there's the sound guy over there watching his transmitted image. and the director was just screaming, "Where's my handheld".

Ooops....and there's the makeup dept. with their shitty little casios.

Ian is right....as usual.
 
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