dovetail stuck

[Denis Buhot]

Hi all... got the huge beast home yesterday.. Time for assembly. I have got the dovetail sliding in the baseplate "rail", locked it into position. All ok... Well, no way to slide it out now ! The lever would do nothing to help, however pushed or pull ! Known problem ? Known solution ? Thanks for your help !

 

[Mike Prevette]

what kind of dovetail?

 

[Denis Buhot]

what kind of dovetail?

thanks mike, thought it was night time over here !! Red shoulder dovetail... I eventually made to the hammer to make it loose again.. it seems the rectangular thing that comes up to block the dovetail into position when you push the lever had got sort of stuck, and that the lever wouldn't get it back into the lower position... strange, though... I'm also surprised at how the base plate doesn't let me use more than one screw to attach it to the tripod base... How can I attach the whole set up securely, then...I don't quite see a way to prevent it "rotating", if can't use a second screw...

 

[Paul Hazlett]

I had this problem too and resorted to marking the hole placement on the side of the bottom plate so I could line up the lever.

 

[Denis Buhot]

I had this problem too and resorted to marking the hole placement on the side of the bottom plate so I could line up the lever.

Hi...line up the lever...? can you explain ? How does it help ??? and did you manage to use two screws to attach the base plate to the tripod ??

 

[Damien Molineaux]

Hi...line up the lever...? can you explain ? How does it help ??? and did you manage to use two screws to attach the base plate to the tripod ??

I take it he means he put indications on the side as to where the holes in the Bottom Plate are, because it's hard to tell, when you put the dovetail lever in place, if the pin is in a hole or not.

As to two screws, unless you drill a hole at the appropriate distance on you tripod plate, it is unlikely you will find a solution.

I've said it before, and I'm certainly not the only one. The Red Bottom Plate and Dovetail are not well designed. It would nice for Red to :

1. Recognize this fact
2. Offer a real solution. My suggestion, abandon the Base Plate (and Shoulder Dovetail) and offer only the (ET made) Arri Base Plates, with customer choice as to 15mm or 19mm. Yes that will cost a ittle more, but it shouldn't be that much.

My solution brings up another point, the difference in pricing on the Arri Base Plates. The 15mm and 19mm plates are very similar in size and cetainly cost pretty much the same to manufacture, therefore should cost the same !

My own second complaint, the Shoulder Dovetail not being rock steady tripod mounting, it has been recommended by Red to use the the Cheese plate. I bought one, however as has been documented, the Red Bottom Plate has a tendency to bend because it is slightly wider than the Red body. This results in the Cheese Plate not being flat against it, and therefore the body can move from side to side. This has caused me vibration problems with the camera on a crane or at the end of any kind of long camera setup. Therefore the Cheese Plate is not a viable solution either. The only solution right now is to buy the Arri Base Plate, and for those that bought the Base Production Pack (and the Cheese Plate, like me) that leaves us with a bunch of useless accessories, which need not have been bought or even made.

I think this is a case where Red has tried too hard to keep their price point on the Base Production Pack, and has made a cut on quality...

Besides that, I would like to say, I am extremly happy with my camera and most of the accessories, although I have an increasing number of accessories from ET, Monstercine, Zacuto, Red Rock Micro, Viewfactor and Tango Head (Blue Handles, they rock !).

Thank you to all third party vendors for offering us all these great accessories, thank you Red for all the great things you've done, are doing, and wil do. It's a shame to let this little detail cause problems to so many.

 

[David Birdy]

The lever on the bottom should lock to the left position if you are facing the camera. To release the tension and slide the dovetail move to the right.

Mine was stuck this week and I was able to release it by un-mounting the camera so I could look down on the top of the dove tail.

You will find a series of round holes in the dove tail plate that a round "peg" fits into. My stuck lever was the result of the "peg" not being aligned into the hole.

You may need to tap on the top of the dovetail plate with a screw driver to loosen the front lever if it has not been properly aligned in the hole and is stuck.

Dave

 

[Denis Buhot]

thanks, dave

thanks, dave

You may need to tap on the top of the dovetail plate with a screw driver to loosen the front lever if it has not been properly aligned in the hole and is stuck.

Dave

Exactly what I eventually did... explanations are great, anyway, and a helping to. The magic in this forum. The day red comes up with perfection, will that spirit be lost ? Could be, I fear ...

 

[Paul Hazlett]

Hi...line up the lever...? can you explain ? How does it help ??? and did you manage to use two screws to attach the base plate to the tripod ??

Maybe your problem was diiferent but when I tried to lock in my plate to a different hole It got stuck because I was not centered all the way and the mechanism jammed.

after I got it unstuck, I made marks on both pieces to line up holes in the plate so I can accurately enough judge where the whole is and lock it securely.

I am only using the one screw since once I lock it to my tripod shoe its solid.
It helps to have a good shoe with fresh rubber to compress against.

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Yeah, I'd like to see the leading edge and trailing edge of the locking pin slightly chamfered so that it guides itself into the hole more efficiently. The tolerances when it aligns are just too tight and we've jammed it many times.

 

[Nelson Goforth]

How to 'un-stick' the dovetail - carefully

How to 'un-stick' the dovetail - carefully

Well, no way to slide it out now ! The lever would do nothing to help, however pushed or pull !

Here's a solution I found, and it's a little scary.

I'd noticed this 'sticking problem' before but it somehow resolved itself. But I was at a machinist friend's place and we were playing with the baseplate. Dovetail got jammed. We pushed and shoved, etc. Then I got an idea and picked up a screwdriver and lightly - lightly! - rapped the baseplate with the handle of the screwdriver. The dovetail slid right off - bam! onto the tabletop. No camera attached or I wouldn't have tried it.

We repeated this several times and discovered that if the locking pin isn't exactly in the hole it will jam. A light tap on the side of the baseplate or the dovetail is enough to dislodge it. If the camera isn't attached you can just press straight down on the rubber-covered locking pin and it easily releases.

If the pin and the hole are not at ALL aligned this doesn't happen. If the pin is exactly aligned with the hole it locks properly (the lever goes all the way over). But if the pin is half-on and half-off of the hole it can easily jam and the lever doesn't quite go all the way over.

The scary part is if the camera were mounted on a tripod, it jammed, and someone lightly rapped the head. Camera slides smoothly and easily off the dovetail and onto the ground. There are no stops on the dovetail (such as you find on Arri dovetails).

We're looking at ways to better secure the camera (safety stops) or fixing the locking pin. The question was whether it was just our bottom plate or was this a broader problem. I guess it is a problem for at least one other user.

So, securely grasp your camera (if attached), turn it over and rap on the dovetail or baseplate. Please respond with your results.

Nelson

 

[Nelson Goforth]

How can I attach the whole set up securely, then...I don't quite see a way to prevent it "rotating", if can't use a second screw...

So the reason I was at a machinist's was to work out putting in a second screw to keep the camera from rotating (and make it more secure as well).

It actually took a bit of doing, since the threaded holes in the shoulder dovetail are not at the same spacing as the holes in the camera, etc. One additional hole in the Cartoni quick release plate wouldn't serve both places and with the 15mm bridge plate and with a re-worked custom plate that allows us to use existing 15mm Lightweight accessories. It took a bit of figuring and we never came up with an ideal solution, just something that worked. You may have to find a clever machinist to help with your specific setup (as we had one non-standard plate we were using for the lightweight gear). If you're near Denver I know just the guy :biggrin:

Nelson

 

[Denis Buhot]

great help, thanks to all... Meanwhile, John at Red sent a message offering help...Great forum, great customer service.

 

[Paul Leeming]

In case anyone wants to know exactly how the internals look, I wrote a thread with pictures here showing the mechanism.

HTH

Paul