DOP EGO...

[Matthew Scott]

So I quit my day job as an editor/colorist/freelance shooter and decided to start my own production company three years ago. I've been in the industry since I was 19 but recently turned 31 and things are going better than ever - I've never been happier working for myself My path is clear now and I really feel like I'm living the dream - Shooting feature films and high end commercials..YES! So anyway, here's something that I wanted to ask you guys about, since many of you are cinemtographers/DOP's. What happens when you shoot someone's film and you shoot it damn well. You bring the writer/director's dream to life and go beyond their expectations. You gently suggest things regarding performances, props, and other things not particularly assigned to your role as DOP that will make the picture more visually appealing....and then, when you seen the film doing well at festivals, winning awards or even getting hits and comments on Vimeo, all you hear about is how amazing the Director/Writer is. I know it's their film but hey, I was a massive player in bringing that thing to life and so were the other 30 odd crew. I guess what I'm asking here is what do more experienced DOP's think about this? For example, who shot TGWTDT!? We all know the Director and we read how amazing the film looks (and agree after seeing the trailers) but how much of that look is David responsible for? What about the light-painting-artist that was with you the entire shoot, listening to your desires and bringing them to life? Is it just because I'm an ego maniac who wants credit for something that doesn't typically get publicly credited? Do I need to get over myself? Or maybe just join a cinematographer's society and share experiences with other DOP's? I'm not crying here, just wondering what you guys think.

 

[Mark Toia]

Just get over it...

Your not the first DP saving some hack directors career and you wont be the last...

The secret is, Shoot and direct your own content... Works for me

Then you get all the slaps on the back. ))))

Take a big deep breath and move forward with a smile.

 

[Matthew Scott]

Just get over it...

Your not the first DP saving some hack directors career and you wont be the last...

The secret is, Shoot and direct your own content... Works for me

Then you get all the slaps on the back. ))))

Take a big deep breath and move forward with a smile.

Hehe...cheers Mark I'll get over it, and I look forward to when I do hehe

 

[Scott Crawley]

Just get over it...
...
Take a big deep breath and move forward with a smile.

He's right. Fight the urge to get possessive and embrace the Director regardless of who you may think is more responsible for the success of the work. If he feels threatened by you he won't throw you the props you deserve, and if he doesn't, there are few who will. It isn't even the public expression of gratitude I'm talking about. Those feel really good but more importantly, you want him telling other directors how valuable you were in helping the project look it's best and come off in time. Those are the things that will really pay you back.

Let him look and feel like a hero and know that you did a good job.

 

[Matthew Scott]

He's right. Fight the urge to get possessive and embrace the Director regardless of who you may think is more responsible for the success of the work. If he feels threatened by you he won't throw you the props you deserve, and if he doesn't, there are few who will. It isn't even the public expression of gratitude I'm talking about. Those feel really good but more importantly, you want him telling other directors how valuable you were in helping the project look it's best and come off in time. Those are the things that will really pay you back.

Let him look and feel like a hero and know that you did a good job.

Yeah, you are right, and I do fully embrace the Director, always, trust me. It's not like I want to run the show, not at all...and it's not like I want credit for the film....Just pointing out that lately I feel I have brought a LOT to the films I've been shooting only to hear from other's how amazing the Director was. The fact that I'm booked till end of March next year and getting a good name for myself is all that counts at the end of the day. I guess I'm just wondering how others deal with being a silent partner in what is a team effort.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I guess I'm just wondering how others deal with being a silent partner in what is a team effort.

They do it with resentment, repressed anger and a large dose of passive aggressive behavior. Ha! That's just a little joke. I'm happy to hear you are doing well.

Out of curiosity, would you compare yourself to peers of similar origin and pedigree and tell us why you think you may be doing better than many of them?

 

[Matthew Scott]

They do it with resentment, repressed anger and a large dose of passive aggressive behavior. Ha! That's just a little joke. I'm happy to hear you are doing well.

Out of curiosity, would you compare yourself to peers of similar origin and pedigree and tell us why you think you may be doing better than many of them?

hehehe.....that's what I thought

As for your curiosity, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, or making a point about?

 

[Matt Uhry]

Part of the job description of being a DP or Editor is not having many people have the faintest clue about what your contributions are to a project and being OK with that.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Matthew Scott]

Part of the job description of being a DP or Editor is not having many people have the faintest clue about what your contributions are to a project and being OK with that.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Cool, great info. But I'm curious as to HOW you are OK with it? And also, I'll mention that I actually AM okay with it, but sometimes wonder how others in the same boat feel, or deal with those feelings.

 

[Scott Crawley]

hehehe.....that's what I thought As for your curiosity, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, or making a point about?

Why do you think you are doing well? What do you think sets you apart from some of the competition?

 

[Matthew Scott]

Why do you think you are doing well? What do you think sets you apart from some of the competition?

Ahh okay, well it's not easy to talk about how good you (think) you are without sounding like a dick right?......obviously my clients are happy with the work I do, the passion and effort I put into every project, and the fact that I'm always on time and work fast. I literally LOVE what I do and make that quite clear. Today, day 6, I walked into makeup and said "Are you guys as excited as I am!!? We're making a MOVIE!!" Making a complete fool of myself, but at the same time, bringing it home that this is what people dream of doing. I also treat every job as an opportunity to learn/try something different, but also love meeting new people and artists in the same industry. Almost every night, I'm at home reading and studying about the art of photography/post production...even though I've been doing it for 10 years already. I guess it's everything I've mentioned here that "sets me apart" from my immediate competition. That, meeting awesome people and being inspired to follow my dreams.

How did I go? hehe

 

[Frank Cueto]

Same thing happens to Colorists to a certain degree. When people keep congratulating the DOP for a great JOB and the colorist knows that it was almost FUBAR until the colorist worked his magic.

USUALLY I've heard, if its well received the DOP did a great job, if people don't like it, then the colorist wasn't really good ;-)

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Cool, great info. But I'm curious as to HOW you are OK with it? And also, I'll mention that I actually AM okay with it, but sometimes wonder how others in the same boat feel, or deal with those feelings.

Not everyone seeks credit and attention. Or responsibility. Many are happy to and prefer to work 'behind the scenes', supporting the director. So I guess your answer to "HOW" is - different people, different personalities.

 

[Matthew Scott]

Same thing happens to Colorists to a certain degree. When people keep congratulating the DOP for a great JOB and the colorist knows that it was almost FUBAR until the colorist worked his magic.

USUALLY I've heard, if its well received the DOP did a great job, if people don't like it, then the colorist wasn't really good ;-)

I've thought about that too! And we could continue through everyone involved I guess. Which kinda makes my post meaningless....other than generating interesting discussion. Thanks for chiming in

 

[Matthew Scott]

"Not everyone seeks credit and attention. Or responsibility. Many are happy to work in the background, supporting the director. So I guess your answer to "HOW" is - different people, different personalities. "

Fair call....so what do you seek?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Fair call....so what do you seek?

You didn't ask me, but I just wish people weren't such victims of camera co.'s marketing and had a better appreciation of quality photography. I'm a gearhead and enjoy doing show and tell, but I take no joy from "Wow, that camera makes beautiful pictures!" If it is early in the day when I hear that I smile, nod and keep working. If the hour is late I might just say "Thanks... now get fucked." ;-)

Edit: OK that may not cross my lips, but my face will tell the story. I can't act for shit.

 

[Matthew Scott]

You didn't ask me, but I just wish people weren't such victims of camera co.'s marketing and had a better appreciation of quality photography. I'm a gearhead and enjoy doing show and tell, but I take no joy from "Wow, that camera makes beautiful pictures!" If it is early in the day when I hear that I smile, nod and keep working. If the hour is late I might just say "Thanks... now get fucked." ;-)

Edit: OK that may not cross my lips, but my face will tell the story. I can't act for shit.

Yeah man, I hear you! Imagine you invited guests over for dinner and cooked them an amazing meal that was well received...but the question was "WOW! You must have an amazing oven!"

 

[J. Eric Camp]

For example, who shot TGWTDT!? We all know the Director and we read how amazing the film looks (and agree after seeing the trailers) but how much of that look is David responsible for? What about the light-painting-artist that was with you the entire shoot, listening to your desires and bringing them to life?

Jeff Cronenweth

He was a camera operator who moved up to DP and is responsible for lensing half of Finchers movies since Fight Club. DP's are not household names. Our names are NEVER in lights and they are hidden in the fine print on posters. It is only through each other, our peers in other departments, trade publications, admiring students and the ever important opportunity to shoot again that we receive our accolades. If you are looking for something else you are simply looking for a wisp of smoke in the wind.

It is most frustrating when you hear someone say, "That looked amazing, the Director is a genius." Which may or may not be true but to hear ALL the credit given to one party is hurtful. However, as Frank started to touch on, it is a VERY common occurrence in the industry for credit for something to be misplaced. This includes punishment for a mistake. That being said, obviously DP's don't own the credit for a good looking movie. They own a very big stake in it, but certainly not all.

It's a political game with many more facets than just our desire to make the most comprehensive form of art. Learning to be okay with it and better yet to navigate it's sometimes troubled waters is just as important as "studying up" on the craft of image creation and manipulation.

..
That is my take.

 

[Bing Bailey]

DOP's are invaluable members of a crew. everyone gets to see their work on screen. except for the writer everyone elses work is paint on top. production designers , art directors , set dressers , costume designers , makeup artists. all of their work contributed to making the movie what it is but they wouldn't ever claim they are the one who made the movie.

be happy you got paid and got to make beautiful art. if that doesn't make you happy and you want acolades as well become your own writer , director , producer and be the person who builds the train before it gets on the tracks. its not the same as getting on a train thats even partially built.

The main reason the director gets the credit is he also gets the blame if it all goes wrong. he's taking the biggest risk. if a movie looks like crap it won't be the DP who gets blamed it'll be the directors fault

 

[David Battistella]

My grandmother had a great saying that works really well in a situation like this.

"Remember that when you point a finger at somebody, you have three pointing right back at yourself."

The DP is a KEY paosition. The people that need to know, know. It's not all the DP, it's not all the director (in a working team environment).

If it is really important to you then be more aggressive in your web marketing.

My exprerience shows that a film only really becomes a film after it has been edited. The director carries the film much farther beyond your contribution as the DP, while you are shooting the next job, the director is busting ass trying to make sure all of his work, your work and the actors work on set is translated correctly to create a FILM.

Shots are not films. Shots and lighting are a PART of the experience, not the whole experience (and I am not in any way suggesting that it is not a VITAL part of the experience).

But while your mind and talent are onto new images, the director is back in an edit suite trying to make everyone look good.

So do they deserve the credit and to be mentioned first.

YES.

Do you deserve credit for your part if the film is successful?

YES.

Did you do it all yourself?

NO.

Keep humble, it's attractive to prospective clients. Don't get stuck in " stinkin' thinkin' ", if you catch yourself thinking the film was only good because of you, it's going to become a problem at some point.


David