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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Don't fear the dark...

Mark Toia

Mark Toia

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I have shot in the dark many many times with RED cameras, but just before any complex night shoot I always test lenses & cameras I want to use during the tec recci, just to see what lights I may need to suport me.
In this case.. not many.

Last night I decided that I was to push the cameras a bit harder than usual, just so I could see what could be retrieved from RCX PRO using multiple different color / gamma settings.
My base was 320 and some 800 ( 800 was set in the camera only so I could register something on the split monitor ) it was alot darker than it looked.
If you could imaging this... all of these shots were a lot darker than what you see before you... and what we retrieved from RCX pushing the curves only are the shots you see below. Grain never worries me until it gets distracting, but i'm honestly amazed with what we go considering how dark it really was out there last night.

I use to grade from REDLOGFILM or REDLOG base settings for dark shots like this, but I was getting better results from just leaving the color setting on REDGAMMA 3.

So to all the people that email me worried about shooting in the dark of night.... don't worry, Shooting in the dark is wonderful...

shooting_in_the_dark.jpg
 
Love it! You just inspired me to shoot some night stuff just for kicks ;) I'm in the middle of an important project, but will probably take some time this weekend to get it. Also love shooting at night with my Epic!
 
Mark & Gunleik,

These shots, as always, are amazing.
I am now getting pretty comfortable shooting with my camera and am constantly expirementing in RCX, but that's still where I need the most help. Would you mind going into a little detail about grading these shots? I honestly don't do much with the curves other than the standard "s" curve. I'd love to hear a little more....

Thanks guys.
 
Brian Shephard said:
Mark & Gunleik,

These shots, as always, are amazing.
I am now getting pretty comfortable shooting with my camera and am constantly expirementing in RCX, but that's still where I need the most help. Would you mind going into a little detail about grading these shots? I honestly don't do much with the curves other than the standard "s" curve. I'd love to hear a little more....

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

Our approaches differ, methinks, but that only means that both are maybe not wrong... :)

I never shoot with a lower ISO than 800, and WB is allways flat when I shoot. 800/5600/
As I know where that image can go. If there is any fidling wth metadata (except for the default curves) I don't really know what's in the image.

These were with just a luma curve adjustment (from redlogFilm). The color images have an additional adjustment of the RED curve.
All straight out of RCX. Maybe spent 20 secs on each.
Most of the stuff happens from framing and exposure... IMHO

I think that is another point of which Mark and I may agree...
 
Sometimes I even shoot FOR the noise...
Anything is ok, as long as you go for it... (these are NOT noisefree... And nor are they meant to be...)

480022_10151102145800126_480329823_n.jpg


531248_10151101285045126_339651463_n.jpg


Dark is beautifull in so many ways...
 
What Mark says about rating 320 for dark/tungsten has a lot of merit, though.... I just am so familiar with the flat image that I prefer to go from there.

Nothing is wrong as long as it gets you were you want, but I prefer to just use it like a filmtool.
The film is 800/daylight. The rest is exposure, (including filering) and framing...
 
There are so many ways to grade... Gunleik's may differ to mine, but the fact is, if we are getting the results we want, then they both work.

I don't really grade in RCX - Im more of a RESOLVE guy.. or even in AE or speed grade... how ever. RCX even though it give no windows or effects, it still grades R3Ds perfectly as they are.

Here is a very simple & basic before and after still frame to get you started. note the toe of the curve. Also... remember, everyone does things differently. :)

NOTE: I shot at 320 asa on purpose to see how far I could push a base image. Just so you can see something on the video spilt or touch screen for the night, crank it up to 1200 or something... at the end of the day, the chip is still around 320ish... so your only cheating the meta data get it brighter on screen. This is a worse case test for me, to see what I can get from nothing. and from nothing we got something :)

rxc_night.jpg
 
Addding in here...

I usually grade in Resolve or still in Lightroom. (Haven't opened Photoshop for a while...)
But run'n gun grades in RCX

One interesting thing with Marks example, is that he leaves ISO @ 320, but adds FLUT to 1.6, which equals an ISO rise to about 1250...

So we don't approach things all that differently after all... :)

Fun to see
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Addding in here...

I usually grade in Resolve or still in Lightroom. (Haven't opened Photoshop for a while...)
But run'n gun grades in RCX

One interesting thing with Marks example, is that he leaves ISO @ 320, but adds FLUT to 1.6, which equals an ISO rise to about 1250...

So we don't approach things all that differently after all... :)

Fun to see
Click to expand...

There are so many different ways to get good results. :) who's is the right way? who only knows. :)
 
Mark Toia said:
There are so many different ways to get good results. :) who's is the right way? who only knows. :)
Click to expand...

If you get the image you want, you did it right. That's the only "rule" I know...

It might (or may not, really) help to knowhow the image is formed in camera, to controll that.
 
Guys, thank you for your insight. And both of you get great images out of it !
What do you set your shutter to for dark shots like these @ 24fps? 180° (1/50, 1/48) or do you expose longer?

Some of the last ones, Mark look like they have a bit more blur with strong motion!? More towards 270°

Cheers!
Patrick
 
Guys, thanks so much for the advice and screenshots. They are SUPER helpful for me.
Looking forward to doing some more nights shots and testing in RCX.

Thanks again!
 
Patrick Grossien said:
Guys, thank you for your insight. And both of you get great images out of it !
What do you set your shutter to for dark shots like these @ 24fps? 180° (1/50, 1/48) or do you expose longer?

Some of the last ones, Mark look like they have a bit more blur with strong motion!? More towards 270°

Cheers!
Patrick
Click to expand...

All of my shots are 180 degrees or 50th of a second... the motion blur shot was a 1 second duration.
 
Mark, those are all beautiful shots that could not have been accomplished on film without severe grain. But a 320 iso image pushed 2 stops is only 1280 iso, which is pretty typical of most digital today.

Again, I love the images, but I don't want producers and directors to read this thread and assume we can shoot in the dark, because your scenarios are actually not that dark by digital camera standards. .
 
Mark,

What glass were you shooting with? The Canon or PL set-up?

-P
 
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