Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Does Metafuze default to Gamma 709 ?

A

alexjentz

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
427
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
www.welldone.tv
Hello Guys,

we currently have the following "Problem":

Cameraman wants to Set RED and light with Redspace Setting.
He also wants to do Pregrading of the Offline Files in Redspace Color Space and Redspace Gamma.

We used to render out of Redcine or Redalert to Avid dnxhd.

So fine till there and no problems over the last months

Now the new Post house does the Rendering with Metafuze.

It takes the RLX from redalert 3.6 and applies everything correctly EXCEPT the Gamma Setting "Redspace". It defaults to Gamma 709.

At least thats what i figure by directly comparing redalert colors with the avid full screen display, because it matches perfectly with redalert set to 709.

But of course that looks totally different than what we graded in redspace.

We want offlines that look like the Set looks we created.

So is there a way to make metafuze use the Redspace Gamma ?


The only workaround if that would not work that i thought of so far:

light on the set in redspace, and then set the gamma in red alert to 709. then try with the curve to get close to the redspace look we had in camera, and then grade from there. takes this setting into metafuze and it could look kind of ok.

Or am i missing an integral part of how metafuze works ?

BTW: i just tried to click on EDIT LUts in Metafuze 1.2 i could not with r3d files. in dpx files it works. but still if it would work, how would i load the redspace gamma lut into it ?

does it have to be 709 gamma curve for some reason ?

thanks so much for solving this

Alex
 
alexjentz said:
Hello Guys,

BTW: i just tried to click on EDIT LUts in Metafuze 1.2 i could not with r3d files. in dpx files it works. but still if it would work, how would i load the redspace gamma lut into it ?

does it have to be 709 gamma curve for some reason ?

thanks so much for solving this

Alex
Click to expand...

Hey Alex,

According to the Avid RED workflow handbook, REC709 is applied automatically, which I guess is the correct thing to do in most cases, as DNxHD is an HD codec.

As you have discovered, "Edit LUT" does not work and this is where you would change the gamma (amongst other things).

I guess as Metafuze 1.2 is feature constrained in other areas as well, outputting with just REC709 gamma was probably a compromise to get something out the door quickly.

Metafuze 2.0 is allegedly out on the 27th and I'm sure this will be sorted out then.

Regards,

Richard
 
MetaFuze v2 is scheduled for release on the 27th. v1.3 shipped as part of the last DS release fixing a co-existence problem when installing MetaFuze on a system with a DS. v2 continues to bring all sources to REC709 when coming from R3D. A look can be set with RLX file but RED Alert should also be set to REC 709 on output gamma for now to have it match. This will be addressed in a future release.

Michael
 
Thanks for clarifiying this issue,

So you say the default to rec709 is more a bug than a feature ?

709 is not necessarly a must for avid since its a "video" / "hd" system.

at least working in redspace all the way through allows for a more filmlike exposure and probably for my feeling also a more filmlike look.


Ok i am trying now the following workaround:

create a rlx preset in redalert that with rec709 matches exactly a redspace version. so far i had to put exposure to 0,77 and make the curve a little s like.

do any of you have such a preset worked out ?

thx
 
I think it's more a feature, not a bug. Traditionally offline editors have some sort of more-or-less Rec709 compliant display so locking the LUT options in MetaFuze to Rec709 when you come from R3D files takes out the guesswork for AEs who may not be familiar with color management.
 
MichaelP said:
MetaFuze v2 is scheduled for release on the 27th. v1.3 shipped as part of the last DS release fixing a co-existence problem when installing MetaFuze on a system with a DS. v2 continues to bring all sources to REC709 when coming from R3D. A look can be set with RLX file but RED Alert should also be set to REC 709 on output gamma for now to have it match. This will be addressed in a future release.

Michael
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,

Is this correct - Metafuze v2 can transcode using one of the three colour spaces (cameraRGB, REDspace, REC709) and defaults only to REC 709 for the gamma space.

Thanks,

Tom
 
good point and good question,


my finding on metafuze 1.3 is that when setting redalert presets to color space redspace and gamma rec 709 the output of the avid matches the redalert settging perfectly.

i didnt check yet though if when i set redalert to color space 709 if then it will keep that or set this color space to redspace by default always too. but since i dont really want color space 709 (what kind of workflow would require that ? ) that was ok for me.

thanks alex
 
Found a good basic setting for a REC 709 look that looks close to the original redspace set: exposure about 0,80 saturation 1,10 and crunch the blacks a bit down. a good starting point
 
Still I think that the best would be to release an 2.5 update as soon as possible with three things that is a must in my view.

* 720 25p output
* Ability to select output LUT and Gamma
* Burn in filename

The only two reasons to use Redcine at this time is in my opinion for a one light grade and EDL output.

The killer workflow for Avid would be to use Metafuze for offline editing, edit, output EDL to Metafuze for a Uncompressed 10-bit output of the movie and then conform it on the same computer. Or, output EDL to Metafuze and have a feature in it to convert that EDL to a Redcine XML to do a one light of the movie before conform.

That would make it possible to do a finished conform and grading on a laptop (with a good screen attached), without having a hundred third party softwares as middle hands.

But even better, edit R3D proxies through AMA, export EDL to Metafuze to do an Uncompressed output or Redcine for one light.
I can't wait for that day to arrive asap.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top