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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Does cs6 run better on mac or pc?

"The 12 core Mac Pro is an overpriced joke, nothing more."

This kind of language is a joke.

"The i7 3930k 6-core overclocked to 5 ghz easily smokes the dual xeons of the 12 core MacPro."

A hacked unstable unsupported and untested mod makes your computer barley match the lowest config 12 core MacPro.

Okay, let me tell you how I hacked mine. I bought a used 8-core MacPro for under 1600 USD. And two _new_ 6 core Xeons at 3.33Ghz for 1500 USD. It's about twice as fast as my 3930k computers in real world scenarios, and 100% stable. And they all use tubo boost. Kind of nice... don't you think?

"6 Core i7 3930k overclocked to 5 ghz = 569$ Cinebench Score 14,40 pts."

Btw: 569$ is only for the CPU, try to be consistent.

"The rest of the 4,999$ Mac Pro hardware is basically worth 200$, the ATI HD 5770 is a joke for a professional workstation, you can use it for Resolve to power the GUI."

ATI HD 5770? I use modern GTX cards, even BM officially recommends GTX570 and GTX580 for Mac-users.

Actually, the rest of the workstation is a really well built machine. Elegant and easy to upgrade and maintain. The motherboard is great, and all the components are high quality. I bought a standard PCI wifi card for my PC in the same room, and it was useless. The onboard MacPro wifi functioned great. Is it even possible to get FW800 to PC's now btw.? You see my point.

"If you want to go the xeon way and need 100% stability, the new xeons are 30% faster and of course cheaper than some 2010 hardware that Apple thinks is good enough for the pros."

They are not cheaper, _far_ from it. And in most real world scenarios not 30% faster, as we've done extensive rendering tests to find out. I wish Apple released a new MacPro with the new Xeon's, but not really because of increased performance, more to stop arguments like these... on the other hand it's good give pc geeks something to nag about to keep them happy and up to date on their Apple hatred, suppressing their extreme subconscious envy of the Mac system. Cheers!
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
"If you enjoy OS X and the older video cards (yesterdays technology ... today), so be it."

I guess you are referring to Mac Pro? No problem using GTX 570 in them, although I use a GTX580.

"If you believe it runs faster, contrary to other posts that document the opposite (I'm too lazy to search these for you), so be it."

Some software runs faster on Windows, some software runs faster on OSX, as I've pointed out to you... this is not hard to document.

"If you want to deal with the security issues on OS X (yes, it's a mess and it's that bad)"

A mess? OSX does not have security issues worth mentioning. Especially compared to Windows. All in all OSX is a safe and robust system, how many use Windows without security software? I've never installed security software on OSX, and never had a problem. 12 months ago or so a virus was around and an update was sent out almost immediately by Apple. What does Microsoft do about the viruses affecting their platform? They tell people to install 3rd party security software that steals performance and introduce almost more problems than a virus or two... great. The Microsoft experience, again...
Click to expand...
ummmm - the 680 is current, not the 580.

As for security, Apple hired this guy after he stated Mac security is 10 years behind Microsoft (so, he probably didn't know what he was talking about, huh?)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57421513-37/kaspersky-mac-security-is-10-years-behind-microsoft/

My business is computers, databases, security. Most people have no idea what lies beneath them. It's not the script kiddees anymore, it's sophisticated criminals who steal your money. Apple's good at PR, not security. You have no idea.

I would never use OS X for anything that needed to be secure. As I said, I also own a Mac Pro - if I'm a 'hater', its from direct experience with Apple.
 
"ummmm - the 680 is current, not the 580."

But 580 is faster for CUDA and calculations... thats why we use 580's in this world.

"http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...ind-microsoft/"

Kaspersky wants to sell his software for Mac users as well, how unexpected... Almost a year later and still no armageddon.

"I would never use OS X for anything that needed to be secure."

OSX is a Unix system. All and everything in this world that needs to be secure is pretty much using variations of the same OS, OSX has not been developed in vacuum, kind of scary...?

"As I said, I also own a Mac Pro - if I'm a 'hater', its from direct experience with Apple."

May I also suggest the i7 27" iMac and a Retina MacBook Pro to go with it?

 
"A hacked unstable unsupported and untested mod makes your computer barley match the lowest config 12 core MacPro."

The i7 CPUs are designed for extreme overclocking and they are very stable if you can control the temperatures. The lowes config 12 core MacPro is the 2.40 ghz.

"Okay, let me tell you how I hacked mine. I bought a used 8-core MacPro for under 1600 USD. And two _new_ 6 core Xeons at 3.33Ghz for 1500 USD. It's about twice as fast as my 3930k computers in real world scenarios, and 100% stable. And they all use tubo boost. Kind of nice... don't you think?"

A nice configuration. But it only confirms my comments that the MacPros is extremely overpriced, if you have to buy a used one and make additional brain transplantations.

"Btw: 569$ is only for the CPU, try to be consistent."

For 4,999$ you pay basically for the CPUs, because the rest as you confirmed with your question mark "ATI HD 5770? " is a joke for the price.

"Is it even possible to get FW800 to PC's now btw.? You see my point."

FW800 is outdated technology. Even the iMac have no FW. And where is your glorious Thunderbold on your MacPro??

"They are not cheaper, _far_ from it. And in most real world scenarios not 30% faster, as we've done extensive rendering tests to find out. I wish Apple released a new MacPro with the new Xeon's, but not really because of increased performance, more to stop arguments like these... on the other hand it's good give pc geeks something to nag about to keep them happy and up to date on their Apple hatred, suppressing their extreme subconscious of the Mac system. Cheers!"

In mosts test the E5 Xeons are faster and if you have 4999$ you can buy 2 of the new eight core xeons (E5-2680) for 3400$, 16 core xeon.

If we talk about serious rendering then it is far cheaper to build render nodes with 3930k not overclocked, and with 4999$ you can build a nice little render farm, that has far more power than your used MacPro with brain modification.
 
"A nice configuration. But it only confirms my comments that the MacPros is extremely overpriced, if you have to buy a used one and make additional brain transplantations."

Xeon machines are expensive.

"For 4,999$ you pay basically for the CPUs, because the rest as you confirmed with your question mark "ATI HD 5770? " is a joke for the price."

A computer is more than a CPU and a gfx card.

"FW800 is outdated technology."

Well, since I'm not a house wife, I don't use anything with a USB sticker for anything else than peripherals like mice and keyboards, only Thunderbolt as you mention is a real alternative for most professional use.

"In mosts test the E5 Xeons are faster and if you have 4999$ you can buy 2 of the new eight core xeons (E5-2680) for 3400$, 16 core xeon."

They are faster, no doubt, but need a nice home as well, and add the price of decent mainboard, FW800, wifi, great audio, system disks, cpu-fans, system fans, dvd-writer... Windows Ultimate license, etc... What does a dual H&P E5-2680 cost?

"If we talk about serious rendering then it is far cheaper to build render nodes with 3930k not overclocked, and with 4999$ you can build a nice little render farm, that has far more power than your used MacPro with brain modification."

Yes, I agree, I have 6 of them in a rack.
 
"Yes, I agree, I have 6 of them in a rack."

Can you explain the basic configuration, please? How is the rack configured? Do you have a link where you can buy good racks? :-)
 
Windows fucking sucks. ...Then again, the only OS that is equivalent is OSX and while it is better in some ways, it lacks in others. ;)

Like most religious discussions, the whole Mac vs. PC debate usually isn't allowed around here. I will agree with a few other statements made in this thread... For starters, don't switch to Windows 8. OMG, it's another Vista all over again. The Metro interface isn't bad on a tablet, has some niceties. On a desktop, especially a pro workstation, it blows. The monochromatic window adornments take me back to 1984 in a not so good retro way... All things considered, I'm not sure what MS was thinking with this design. In a perfect Windows 8 world, everyone would be using 20" and smaller touch displays.

It's true that most Mac users are ill-informed about the platform's security. I wouldn't say that OSX is less secure than Windows, but it's true that Apple has, until very recently, not paid enough attention to security matters. Windows has been under attack from the very early days for a variety of reasons. One unfortunate aspect of the whole Windows implementation is that it's insecure by design. The openness of the various HAL's and accessibility to the internals by applications and device drivers allow for great potential in performance. Those characteristics also allow for great potential in exploitation. Microsoft does an admirable job of plugging security holes and addressing threats. However, no matter how you slice it, there are still 10,000 times as many threats from viruses and malware on the Windows platform vs. the Mac. Don't believe for a second the Mac is immune. The inherently more secure client-server Unix paradigm is only part of the reason for this. The main reason is that Windows has been the whipping boy of the hacker community since its inception, since before in the DOS days... When Microsoft rose to global domination, it only made it a bigger target. So much of what is written in terms of malicious code is written for Windows due to accessibility of the hardware and software in the hotbed regions of the world. We are seeing a rapid increase in the amount of Mac-based malicious code. It won't be long before it's just as bad. With both OS's it's best to keep everything up to date. And be careful with your browsing habits and security settings. Don't allow other systems to store data on your systems (Mac or Windows) via Flash or other web interface. Don't download shoddily cracked warez from torrent sites and then wonder why you have porn banners suddenly appearing on every legit site you visit...

Comparing a 6-core i7 desktop PC build to a Mac Pro and claiming the Mac Pro is overpriced is just plain silly.. Unfortunately, that comparison is unavoidable. It's not that the Mac Pro is overpriced. Really, it's not! Compare it to comparable PC workstations from HP, Dell, Origin, etc.. The real problem is that Apple has a giant, gaping hole in their product line. They have a kick-ass all-in-one desktop. And then they have a kick-ass dual Xeon tower workstation. Not one system in between using a mainstream desktop class CPU. WTF??? I suppose they do this for two reasons. 1> The price ranges of the all-in-one iMac and the dual Xeon Mac Pro overlap, so in terms of cost it's easy to transition from one to the other. 2> 90% of the Mac Pro users out there could be served just fine with a desktop-class CPU offering like a system with a single i7 6-core CPU. If they released such a configuration, the market for the dual Xeon tower would dry up. Only the top 10% elite users would need it -- the people doing R3D and serious analytical or visualization workflows, for example. It would be difficult for them to justify the production of that system. HP sells more high-end Xeon workstations than anyone and I know there are times they have questioned the viability of that platform over the long haul. But if they stopped making them, it could potentially kill the sales of all their other product lines.

The Mac Pro is not really outdated so much as people want to claim. Apple sits atop a rather long list of system integrators that have chosen to NOT IMPLEMENT this current round of Xeon CPUs. The Romley E5 platform was more than a year delayed, failed to live up to the originally claimed speeds, consumes upwards of 40% more power than the previous generation, is 35% more expensive than the previous generation, and has a memory speed issue that Intel has been unable to properly address. Real world performance puts my top of the line HP Z820 at about 15% faster overall than my 2010 12-core Mac Pro. I love my Z820 and think it's a great system.... That said, it hasn't been the greatest purchase. It's a power hog and somewhat temperamental. It's the first system I've bought in close to a decade that hasn't been able to ROI itself in the 8 months I've now owned it. I have nearly $15K sunk into it, not including monitors, RED Rocket or Decklink cards or things I already owned and transferred to the system. As configured at the moment with all of those things, it's probably a $22K computer setup.

Intel was supposed to release the next iteration of Xeon CPUs sometime toward the end of March. That may not be happening now. It seems like it's going to be September or October. So those integrators who skipped this generation of Xeon are really feeling the pressure. I know Apple is feeling it for sure. They were feeling it before, more so than most PC vendors, because Apple fanatics usually don't understand the hardware aspects as much. They just saw that Apple had not upgraded the Mac Pro in over 2 years and there was public outrage. Never mind that HP or anyone else had not updated their Xeon towers either, Intel had not released anything new to upgrade them with. In a way, it's probably best Intel is behind schedule (again). It gives me more time to ROI this Z820 pig before I feel compelled to buy another workstation.

GPUs... Always a sore subject with the Mac platform. The only Mac system with interchangeable video cards is the Mac Pro. The majority of Mac Pro owners have their needs served by the default offerings. The market for aftermarket or third-party GPU upgrades is so minimal, it only gets tried occasionally. It's fully allowed now, not locked off. We'll see what happens if/when Apple releases a new Mac Pro and if AMD or nVidia make aftermarket GPU options a better reality this time around. nVidia/ PNY did great with the Quadro 4000 and had announced the Quadro 5000 Mac edition. But it would definitely be nice to see a wider range of choices.


As for CS6, I run it on both Mac and Windows. I prefer it on Windows. I like OSX and working on a Mac and prefer OSX over Windows any day, however... The Adobe code base is better established and performance is better tuned on Windows. I have far superior GPU choice and officially supported GPU options with more robust CUDA support and driver updates on Windows.

CS6 still runs like a champ on my retina MBP though and I tend to finish up or even do entire projects on the Mac Pro when I need to work with a lot of ProRes files or if I have to deliver in ProRes. Personally, I can't live without both platforms. I'm not sure I see the purpose of debating which is better. And comparing an i7 self-build to one of the nicest production dual Xeon workstations on the market is stoopid. Perhaps its a better solution for your needs, but there are applications where that 8-core 2.4GHz Mac Pro will trounce that i7-3770K system. All comes down to specific needs and which applications are considered. Compare the Mac Pro to one of its peers -- the HP Z800, for example. Compare the i7 self build to one of its peers -- Dell XPS gaming desktop or similar. Sure, you can save money by building yourself. You also have to support it yourself, warranty it yourself (or get jerked around by the various component makers/ suppliers). Other than laptops, Macs and the occasional big-box workstation like the Z820, I build all my own systems. There are times it makes sense and times it doesn't.
 
Well put Jeff.....

The Mac os is the thing that draws me towards them....but when it comes to work...I have to go PC

There was quite a while there, when it was not just adobe that was not 64bit on the Mac ....
Maya wasn't ...as well as syntheyes....Houdini didn't exist for Mac for quite a while...and fusion still will only run it on bootcamp. Mac really wasn't an option...

Now not so much....the Mac Pro towers are decently priced....maybe even cheaper then a dell or HP.....the hardware is more of a level playing field.....a far cry from when intel and amd were duking it out and Mac was still stuck with Motorola
And I think the security issues with PC are somewhat a thing of the past.... as of few years ago...the British navy now runs its nuclear subs on a modified version of xp64

For me it's not the OS so much...as the hardware and drivers underneath....when I run adobe apps....I don't even think about the OS underneath unless its getting in my way....
 
Mike Harrington said:
I had a fw800 card in my pc since 2008....just pulled last month because I ran out of pci slots with 3 GPUs and a rocket...haven't really used it since USB 3 came out
Click to expand...

Just wait until the next version of USB3, hopefully in late 2014.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...nderbolts-jugular-doubles-max-speed-to-10gbps

the article also compares it to thunderbolt.

If Thunderbolt prices go down and the speed comes up (which is likely), with Intel pushing it, I wouldn't write it off just yet (as the article seems to).

BTW - anyone in love with a motherboard that doesn't position the x16 slots right next to each other (so that one is wasted by a large graphic card), or know of some kind of header to salvage the hidden slot (without resorting to an external PCIe cage)? I think SuperMicro has come out with a design that does, but ... it's one strange form factor motherboard.
 
You can do whatever you want with risers and splitters....

Depending on the app you can split a pcix16 into 2 8's and so on....mounting them will be tricky....

Not all CUDA accelerated apps need even close to full x16 v2 bandwidth....let alone v3...

Guys running RR cards via thunderbolt are basically getting 2 lanes pci v2....and that is streaming 4k
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Windows fucking sucks. ...Then again, the only OS that is equivalent is OSX and while it is better in some ways, it lacks in others. ;)
Click to expand...

Jeff, how is this even relevant if we are mostly focused on application performance? From my perspective, i've not found my Mac experience from the last 10 years any different from my Windows experience prior to that. Sure, the blue screen of death has gotten replaced with a beautiful spinning wheel of coma, but how does that make OSX better?

Right now, on my macbook, I have to run 'purge' in the terminal every so often and it MAKES the performance better! Apparently, there was a bug in memory management that seems to be exacerbated on my limited memory macbook pro. Oh, and I can't add more memory to it!

Sure, I like some of the UI elements in the OS that help me navigate the system, but that's a very small portion of my time spent. Most of my time is IN the application.

In short, if the OS matters, then say OSX actually helps the apps we care about work better. Does it? How? I have seen no difference worth mention. Other than to say, it crashes (hangs rather) frequently enough that I get annoyed whenever I hear about OSX stability. Ugh.

If the OS doesn't matter, then let's talk about what matters. Hardware? Open ecosystem? Etc.

I'm starting to slowly lean towards a PC build, which I know is effort/time I'd rather devote to other things, so really want to make sure my thinking on these issues is solid. I'll most likely end up just buying the Z820 but am hesitating, don't know exactly why yet.
 
+1 for PC. Plus you can add one of the new Sandy Bridge E5 2690's later on, and have multiple programs such as After Effects that will fly. It also negates the use of a Rocket. You can't do that on a Mac, and this processor blows Mac out the water.
 
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