Does a R3D from an EpicX - Scarlett - REDoneMX match?

[Paul E. McCarthy]

Recently had a shoot against white Cyc. I shot it with 2 cameras 1 Epic X and 1 REDone MX. My white balances were off by 500k. Epic was 2900k and REDoneMX was 3400k.
In this experience the 2 cameras didn't match, I was able to match them pretty closely in Scratch but it was some work.

The look from the 2 cameras sdi wasn't even close which is understandable but more importantly are these R3D files the same?

Should these 2 cameras match in white balance?

If all R3D metadata is the same will the images match in post?

Is an R3D made on an Epic different from an R3D on a REDoneMX?

Do Scarlets match Epics perfectly?

Will REDcolor3/REDgamma3 match these cameras up....?

Thanks

Paul

 

[Bob Gundu]

My guess is the R3D's from RedOne will be different than the Epic. Scarlet and Epic I would assume would be a much better match. But every sensor is different. Even if you calibrate them, there are so many factors that can make them look differently. The quality of the SDI feed is also in flux as there are always tweaks to every build. Best thing is to do tests on set and do split screens until you get them as close as possible.

 

[Paul E. McCarthy]

I'm more concerned with R3Ds then SDI. I would think 2 cameras from the same company could match white balance. Have you ever white balanced a REDonemx and Epic?
do you remember the Kelvin you got?

 

[JP Perry]

I haven't seen two Epics match. It's all metadata, so I suppose it doesn't matter, but the images on the touch screens are usually different from camera to camera.

 

[Matt Ryan]

you can't judge based on the sdi out because Red One viewing is limited to Redcolor and Redgamma the original set (not version 2) . R3D's will match with a bit of tweaking. They won't match exactly, they are 2 different camera's with the same sensor but different processor's, bit depth, and better DR in the Epic.

The R3D's are the same for all the camera's but the processors and hardware in the individual camera's are different, thus a difference in image.

Compare an F3 to an EX3 and I guarantee you their white balance won't match.... They may be close, but not the same.

 

[Matt Ryan]

I haven't seen two Epics match. It's all metadata, so I suppose it doesn't matter, but the images on the touch screens are usually different from camera to camera.

If they are both reset to factory default, and the only thing adjusted is frame rates/shutter angles, they should match. If they don't that means one of the color settings or something else in the camera has been adjusted on one and not the other.

 

[Paul Kalbach]

Although Epic and Red One-MX have the same sensor, apparently not all R3D files are created equal. Adobe Premier Pro CS 5.0 will open a native R3D shot on Red One, but sees an R3D shot on Epic as an unsupported format or a corrupt file. PP CS 5.5 WILL open an Epic R3D if you also install the Red Epic Importer plugin. Even though there seems to be a difference in code, I think you should be able to match them if you have identical parameters, identical lighting, and similar lenses.

 

[ericyoung]

If mixing multiple cameras on the same shoot, it's probably worth shooting at least one MacBeth colour chip chart on all the cameras at the beginning of the shoot under the same lighting and having a look at the footage in your editing/grading software of choice - it'll give some guidance about any relative differences between cameras.

 

[Paul E. McCarthy]

thanks for all your responses. I understand that no cameras are exactly a like and why they will not match perfectly but I'm just trying to get my 2 REDs in the same ball park.

So is it safe to say that there is REDoneMX RAW and Epic X Raw, Is there Scarlet RAW?

or

is RAW non specific to the camera and just the recording voltages from photosites which at certain level would create White.

should these 2 camera be able to white balance close.

 

[Matt Ryan]

thanks for all your responses. I understand that no cameras are exactly a like and why they will not match perfectly but I'm just trying to get my 2 REDs in the same ball park.

So is it safe to say that there is REDoneMX RAW and Epic X Raw, Is there Scarlet RAW?

or

is RAW non specific to the camera and just the recording voltages from photosites which at certain level would create White.

should these 2 camera be able to white balance close.

They are all RAW. The difference in R3D's (Red's RAW compression codec) from the Red One to the Epic/Scarlet is the bit rate, resolution (Epic), Redcolor2 & Redgamma2 RMD default, and better compression ratios. That should be the only differences between the R3D's.

They will white balance very closely if you shoot a chart with both under the same lighting, and process with the same color and gamma space (i.e. Redcolor 2, Redgamma 2). Once you take the WB picker and select the 18% grey for both camera's they should match very well. If they are still off a tiny bit you can tweak to get a better match but they should be very close...

 

[Andreas Mendritzki]

If mixing multiple cameras on the same shoot, it's probably worth shooting at least one MacBeth colour chip chart on all the cameras at the beginning of the shoot under the same lighting and having a look at the footage in your editing/grading software of choice - it'll give some guidance about any relative differences between cameras.

Agreed.

Shot a two camera set up recently with RedMX and Scarlet. Matched perfectly after a quick grade in RcX, but there was a definite colour shift between the two cams.