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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Do YOU want 6k??

Do YOU want 6k??

  • Total voters
    325
Justin O'Neill

Justin O'Neill

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The "disappointed in Dragon" thread made me curious how many people don't want 6k. I know myself and a lot of people we work with would take 12k in heartbeat but I also understand there are many who don't want to deal with the time and price it takes to process more than 5k.
 
Better low light when you need it. And better highlight protection. That's what I want
 
I think the question is more complicated than that, like in still cameras, how much "K" do we want in certain sensor sizes? Would we rather see an increase in sensitivity? To ask if someone wants 6K doesn't take into account that they might want it in a FF35 sensor but not an APS-C sensor, for example. Technically the Canon 5D Mk.3 is 5.7K and the Nikon D800 is 7.3K, both on a FF35 sensor. But some people prefer the Canon because of its low-light performance.
 
Sounded to me like 6K on Dragon is a little bigger than 5K on Epic-X and 5K on Dragon will be a little smaller than 5K on Epic-X. If that is true, 5k on Dragon will be perfect and we have 6K when we need it.

I am mostly interested in better dynamic range and better colors.


Dusty
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I think the question is more complicated than that, like in still cameras, how much "K" do we want in certain sensor sizes? Would we rather see an increase in sensitivity? To ask if someone wants 6K doesn't take into account that they might want it in a FF35 sensor but not an APS-C sensor, for example.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Dragon is a sensor upgrade for the current Epic brain though...it doesn't sound like they can get FF35 or higher with the same brain. The Monstro line of Epics is still to come.

Technology changes very fast...a couple years ago denser pixels meant less sensitivity...I have faith that RED was able to increase the density to 6k and not sacrifice sensitivity.
 
roryhinds said:
cheaper faster Rockets are needed.
The current "oh just buy another expensive rocket" is not a solution.
Click to expand...

MIC / HPC computing is on the horizon for the desktop. Rocket EOL rapidly approaching I think. Intel's Knights Corner looks to be almost 400X faster for double-precision FP32 ops than an 8-core Xeon E5-2670 and will sell for roughly 1.75X the price. Out of the box it supports both x86 and OpenCL instructions / APIs. Engineering samples are shipping now, or will be any day now. Official release in November, I think. nVidia also showing something similar with their new Tesla cards, namely the K20 releasing later this year, but so far they're showing a complete inability to produce their new chips in quantity.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Absolutely. Dragon is a sensor upgrade for the current Epic brain though...it doesn't sound like they can get FF35 or higher with the same brain. The Monstro line of Epics is still to come.
...
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point. Maybe Jarred or someone from could chime in? This doesn't seem to break too much of the RED development security levels!?

Will the FF sensors be only accessible via a new brain or could they possibly be a sensor upgrade like dragon?

I know this is still a few steps out, but still :)
 
As for the poll: I would say there can (almost) never be enough K. Not only because of my demand of print sizes, this will be incredible to have.

Even if it's captured at +10K and mastered for motion in 4K "only" ;)

Capture 6K, 8K or even 10K+. edit & master in 4K. draw stills from the hi-res footage.
come back to the edit at any place in time and be able to just hit "render in full res" to get the full glory of the story, if needed.

yeah, compositing and vfx have to be exported to 4K from a future proofed 10K size, too ... hehehe
 
For me it might be a better poll to ask the either or question since all things physical involve a tradeoff:

6K resolution with minimal increases in sensor range . . . . OR . . . much more DR, Sensitivity and Quality to a 5K sensor?

My vote would be to increase the quality not quantity of the pixels. If Dragon is only 2 stops more in DR (one stop on the top + one on the bottom) then that is going to be a significant competitive issue a year from now when it ships.
 
Josh Beadle said:
For me it might be a better poll to ask the either or question since all things physical involve a tradeoff:

6K resolution with minimal increases in sensor range . . . . OR . . . much more DR, Sensitivity and Quality to a 5K sensor?
Click to expand...

My guess is there are diminishing returns with larger pixels meaning less noise. Look at the Sony F65 which is in approximately 6K camera with a super 35mm sensor…from what I hear it is very clean on the low-end .
 
Can you imagine the file sizes once the sensors can produce like 10k,11k,12k, etc images!? Its gonna be crazy!

I love it;)
 
Sticking with S35 sized sensor is important for me.
I think, for the near future, 6K is plenty of resolution. Like others, I would very much like a better noise floor and a little more highlight protection (though the way I think, that is basically the same thing)
And I agree with others about a fatter post pipeline, whether that's a better Rocket or cheaper faster computers. It's been discussed at length in other threads, but the post part is still a stumbling block for some clients, and the Rocket helps, but as the file sizes get biger this will once again become a choke point.
Cheers,
Harry
 
I like 6K. It gets us to 5K within the s35 frame size, which means more out of our existing lenses that don't cover 5K on Epic/Scarlet right now. And it gives us the extra resolution too... and it's not like we're going to see image quality suffer as a result- we're going up in resolution, up in DR, and up in sensitivity.
 
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