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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DIT Pre-Pro questions

Jay A. Kelley

Jay A. Kelley

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I would be very grateful for some thoughtful info from the DITs on the board.

I'd like to know your different processes in regards to PRE-PRO as a DIT on a medium - large budget shoot ($5mil - $150mil +) TV shows can apply too.

What I am interested in is this:

Once you get the job, who are the first 5 people on the production you contact, and what information are you looking for?

This is #1 of three questions I will be asking.

I would be grateful for the most specific answers you can give.
(There will be goodies for the people that really go above and beyond here!)

Thanks

Jay
 
I think the 3 top people to talk to as soon as possible (not necessarily in this order) are DP, Director, Producer, and if possible editor or someone from their post side of things.

The questions I ask (also not necessarily in this order)

1. Know what the camera package is, intended setups, equipment, where you are shooting etc. This will allow me to gauge what I need to pack up with me (usually I bring more than what's required) But I also start planning offloading methods, what's the fastest most efficient way of getting those cards or drives offloaded without hanging up production, while assuring the DP and Director are getting the image they want.

2. Budget of course, the amount I'm being paid to the equipment I bring to the services offered. On set transcoding with one lights are an additional fee. A great deal of the time it's just the media management, helping with camera support and answering a lot of tech questions along with guiding DP's who are new to RED with exposure methods and etc. I tend to ask production for the drives with the fastest connections possible on their budget. (esata at a bare minimum) Or I offer to build drives for them to help them save on cost, and it scales from low to high budget. From your g drive to RAID, or even LTO.

3. Last is basically asking the kind of look they are going for. Helping them develop that with the camera and delivering it to post. This applies more if they need transcodes on set for the editorial or dailies. Applying a lut to the camera or doing immediate one lights you have to know what they want the look to be, and do all the tests you can. Makes you shine that much more when you can give a level of reassurance that they are getting what they want. Combined with seamless offloads it makes for a good time on set.

Always try to do a checkout of the equipment, see what production will swing for you, and see what you need to bring yourself. I usually bring everything as a backup, but try to use as much as production gives me as possible to save the shelf lif of my own equipment. If they offer me the Mac Pro for offloading and one lights, I'm gonna use it. If they offer me a generator, tent and stands, I'm using it.

There's a lot to cover but the job entitles a lot, and you are the bridge from production to post. Lot of people look at it as a media management position, but I like to see it as a quality assurance position :)
 
Excellent answer Tom.. I'd like to focus on your last sentence... The "Bridge from Production to Post".

Yet you say at the beginning of the post that you speak to editor or someone from post side of things "if possible".

Is this hard to do? May post people complain the DITs do not communicate with them.. Do you find it's the other way around?

Jay
 
I spoke only more on general terms, for very high budgets you'll have more opportunity to talk to all the people you need to. Ideally you'll be part of pre production all the way to the beginning of post, and you'll have the ability to talk to the post supervisor, and editor and see what they need to make things right for them. Workflow constantly changes for the project, so that's just one of those things the team has to figure out to see what suites them the best.

Speaking personally, I haven't work on any projects with budgets beyond several hundred thousand dollars, so someone like Brook and several other veterans on this forum are the people to talk to about that, but generally 75% of the projects I work on, they don't even know who's going to edit it yet. Then you've got editors that have never worked with r3d before, I usually have to talk them through a lot of things. I do my best to try to get as much info as possible, cause personally I think the position gets misinterpreted as simply as the digital loader and nothing else. I'm sure on the much higher budgets it won't be so, still working my way there :)

slowly but surely right?
 
It varies per job.

On my current gig just getting the job involved contacting a plethora of folk. UPM, Line Producer, DP, Editor. Around $1M budget.

UPM/Line producer: #1 concern for me is budget. Sometimes I ask, sometimes I give an estimate up front based on what information I already may have. Pretty much everything is up for negotiation to a point, but ultimately this is 100% personal unless the unions are involved. LOTS of production details. Locations, schedules, sets/stages, Days/nights, INT/EXT, FX (rain towers, Fans, etc) Then I get into what they have planned for data backups, which will often lead to a conversation with the editor or post in some fashion.

Camera specific stuff I ask the DP.
 
I usually try to talk to the DP, UPM, First AC, Post Supervisor, Sound Mixer, Colorist, and Telecine operator. (Usually in that order, except for Sound Mixer)

The DP is who I work for, managing their footage and their looks and helping maintain and protect that throughout the process. I usually find out the basics of what they expect from me and how involved they want to be in the specifics of what I do.

The UPM is the person I make my deal with for myself and my equipment, which I can only do after speaking with the DP about what he or she needs for the project.

The First AC is the practical head of the camera department, plus he or she will have a pretty big impact on what camera-related equipment and accessories are needed, and how the camera is going to physically be built.

The Post Supervisor (usually after discussions with the DP and editorial) will let me know what aspect ratio, frame rate, framing guidlines (ie protect 4x3 for TV series, which is still usually the case), and camera firmware build they plan using for the project. I also ask what the workflow is once the footage leaves the set and my hands, as well as what applications and hardware they are using for each step of the workflow so I know how that is going to impact on-set decisions, both workflow and image-wise. I also explain what gear I will be bringing in and arrange what kind of medium they want to transport the footage on, whether they are formatted FAT32, NTFS, or HFS. I make sure that the DP is aware of all of these decisions to make sure he is in agreement with all the methods being decided upon. Again, I work for the DP. I also ask the Post Supervisor to get my info on the Post Production Contact list so that if someone from post needs to get ahold of me, they can find me.

I check with the Sound Mixer to make sure that we're using the same frame rate and whether or not sound is providing timecode sync boxes, and ensure that they have the right cables. I also work with sound and the Post Supervisor to see if sound is sending their own media to post or if I am downloading and sending sound files and/or discs with the camera neg.

If I can talk to the Colorist (more for TV since they will be hired on for sure at that point), I make sure to find out how many of the RAW image controls they use in their color timing, and if they base that off of camera metadata or wipe all the settings and start from scratch. This has usually already been decided upon with the DP, or is finalized during a camera test. I also talk to the the Telecine operator, if there is one for dailies, and ask the same questions.

Sometimes a few of these people may not be available or as knowledgeable on RED workflows, but the conversation gets started so that we're all on the same page.

Hope that helps.
Tim
 
Tim this is FANTASTIC... Excellent info.. Please visit this thread again as I will have another two questions.. First I want to sit on this a few hours more and see if anyone else chimes in.

One thing Tim.. Tell me about the conversation with the post supervisor.. What does that usually entail?

Jay
 
What Tim said... because he said it well ;-)

I'm not sure I can add more of interest and value to you Jay; we do things differently here and budgets are usually much much smaller than in the US. The DIT role is still somewhat of an unwritten chapter here in Denmark and I find myself spending a lot of time trying to justify why I should be on a production at all. Some get it - but others definitely don't...

I've worked on a couple of features, a few shorts and a lot of commercials - aside from shooting my own stuff - and one thing I've learned is that every job is different.

I've had to turn down really high-profile jobs because they just weren't taking the DIT role seriously; they basically wanted a low-rate copy-monkey that didn't interfere with the rest of their workflow and do the work on their crappy gear. I told them I wasn't that guy, although the gig would have looked great on my resumé. I don't think that particular Line Producer will be calling me again; she was dumbfounded that I turned down the offer. I told her that I couldn't do a good job under the terms they were willing to offer me and that one job gone bad would be the end of my career.

One thing that comes to mind that hasn't been mentioned above is that I always run full diagnostics on all recording media and that I do sensor-checks before starting the production (if I can). I make a range of clips with varying light intensity to see if there are any problems with the sensor and I always keep these recordings as proof. I'd like to be able to this on a daily basis when working on features, but it's just not possible because the gear usually stays with the AC or DP. Depends on the job.

I also usually do back-focus checks and an occasional black shading with the AC or 2nd AC.

Aside from all the on-location stuff I basically handle all the media, check footage, make dailies, deliver to edit and so on.

But again - no two jobs are alike.
 
Tony,

I think it was a mistake for me to limit this conversation to larger productions.. Your post opened my eyes to some things I never thought about.. So let's drop the budget limitations.. I'd like to hear from DITs who work regardless of experience level.

Jay
 
Well, the conversation with the Post Supervisor is usually just the beginning, asking the questions I mentioned above, and at least getting enough info to keep going. Then I make sure to keep him or her updated as things come up during the production, try to keep my eye on at least the advance schedule on the bottom of the call sheet to make calls before something might change or a deviation from the normal workflow might be called for.

The show I'm currently on is on the lot pretty much every day, so I see the Post supervisor every morning, and he usually comes around after lunch as well for other reasons, but I usually at least say hi and make sure they haven't had any issues I haven't heard about, since that happens from time to time.

Basically I want the Post Supervisor to know that I'm doing everything in my power to ensure that the footage they get is exactly what we expect them to get and exactly what they expect to get from us. Because they usually only transfer printed takes in telecine, I am usually the only person who sees every take after recording, so I want them to know that I'm always keeping my eye on things to make sure the show runs smoothly.

I should also note that while I didn't write much about talking to the DP, that is a bigger conversation than the Post Supervisor, but every DP and Job are so different that you just have to approach each conversation individually.

Tim
Tim
 
1.dp --- talk about the pro and cons of the red at the intended set ups of the film
2.editor/post --- to think about an efficient workflow
3.assistant editor --- to erase potential confusions (naming conventions etc.)
4.sound guy --- to decide fan settings, talking about lock-its etc.
5.make up --- to talk about the used make up and how these will effect the image, test it.
6. producer --- talk about the special set ups (heli/stunt/underwater/steadycam etc.) and then prepare the RED euqipment list. + talk about powering the DIT station even after wrap

generally talking about looks, offline footage, dailies etc.
this is no indepth info, but should give an idea.


and more and more it becomes a mix of cameras,
working right now on a feature where reds are mixed with phantom and canon shots, maybe some 35 mm for certain shots will follow
 
jay, thanks for beginning this thread - do you have a specific purpose / background doing your research?

best wishes,
martin
 
These guys all speak the truth. I have been doing this gig for about a year now, from no-budg to bigger stuff, and always learning more and more. So in the spirit of learning, I have a few questions of my own. I'll try to stay vague, as I know all too well, true magicians never reveal their secrets...

1 - Where do you prefer to live on set? Near camera carts/video village/sound/etc? If so, how are you transporting your gear?
--This seems relatively unimportant, but this has been my biggest conundrum. Filmmaking in Michigan is great because of awesome people and locations, but we get all 4 seasons here. Extreme heat and cold, rain and snow, wind and dust...basically all things that are really bad for computers and monitors. Just about every show I've been on, there's been some real good reasons NOT to be on set outdoors (temperature, precipitation, no room on a cramped set, etc, etc, etc). Plus I've seen ACs shoving magliners around all day and I can't bear the site of my Macs going through that abuse. What to do? I found a location not far from set that is always dry, dark, temperature controlled, powered, and out of the way but still close to the action: camera truck>dark room. Not being used for anything else (unless it's a show that combines film and digital), so I claim that spot while loading the truck on a pre-pro day. Sometimes I have a bit of a walk to and from set, but I know while I'm away that everything is protected, and I'm just a walkie call away for questions. I'd like to make the leap to being right on set, but it just doesn't seem safe for gear. A flimsy pop up tent is going to keep the rain off, but not the cold or wind. Hints/tips/suggestions? Like my dark room method?
 
2 - LUTs. When is the best time to make these? During pre-pro camera tests? Or on set right before you pull the trigger on a shot? If you do it during pre-pro, you aren't going to have the same light as you will on the day, especially for interiors and night stuff. If you do it on the day, you could be in a seriously crunched-for-time stressful situation.
Also, how much are you controlling different LUTs for different monitors on set? Does the DP usually have his/her own monitor with a specified look applied to it? Is it a different LUT than video village/director's monitor? I'm confused on how do accomplish this task if it's required. Is there a good resource somewhere for more insight on this? Are you, as a DIT, setting up and operating/maintaining video village? I assume it's different on every show, but I'd like to get a feeling for the norm.
 
3 - Dailies. I hate DVDs, but they seem to be the easiest, most convenient for those who need to see dailies. Need a new method. I've looked at the "iPod" thing, the "upload to an online service" thing and the "handing out a 'flask' drive" thing. They all have too many potential issues. Is there a better way? Without getting too specific, what is your preferred method?


No further questions.

I thank you.
Picot
 
AaronPicot said:
So in the spirit of learning, I have a few questions of my own. I'll try to stay vague, as I know all too well, true magicians never reveal their secrets...
Click to expand...

I really dislike this mentality. In the spirit of learning the opposite should be true.

Even if you knew all the "secrets" others are using, that doesn't mean that you'll take their work from them, even if you happen to be in the same markets. What you know and what you can do is always a big part of getting a job, but I don't know if it ever has landed me the work in spite of my personality, work ethic, or attitude.

If I can answer any questions, I answer them with as much pertinent info as possible, and don't hold anything back for the sake of thinking I'm protecting myself, and I applaud those here that are willing to give the information they possess without fear of exposing some "secret" of theirs
 
AaronPicot said:
This made me curious. Why does your station need power all night other than temperature control? Are your processors working through the night?
Click to expand...

i am using a bus,
it its equipped with 4 seats (3 visitors)
it has emergency power for 2 hrs.
its equipped with a rocketstation and a couple of eizo monitors.
when everybody goes i sometimes go through footage with the director and dp/or producer
 
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