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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DIT Pre-Pro questions

Hi Jay,

I'll collect my thoughts and add to this later today. I just spent the last 6 days as DIT on a shoot for a series pilot. Had some things happen that made me look at being a DIT in a whole new light. I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts here, but it seems there's already a lot of good info.
 
Hey guys, my name is Noah. This is my first post, and I work with Jay at Dreamwelder. I'm looking forward to being apart of the forum community.

Do me a favor, for those of you who are willing, start collecting any cool photos you have while working as a DIT (that you can legally post) or your equipment. Do not post them on this thread. Just hang on to them, and I will have more information later on. If you don't have any, start thinking about a way to get them, you have time.
 
Welcome Noah!

I haven't posted allot myself during the years. There have been so many with same questions as I that I just kept reading and reading and got almost all the info I needed from reduser from being a amateur to becoming a professional DIT working on huge productions. If I can contribute in any way I would be very happy to give something back!

-And I will of course share all that I know and have learned. I do train new DITs occasionally and have 3 pro DIT labs out on productions all the time.

all the best
 
I don't have much to add to Andreas post...

The main thing is to reference the monitoring chain for the final output.
Thus: For offlines REC 709 is usually a good choice, if that is what the editors monitors are set up with.

I have some files (charts and "real" exposuretests) that I can load into the relevant room, and to the camera (from CF) and playback through both the camera to the on-set monitor and playback on the DIT machine and in the editing room, to quickly visually confirm that the image is the same for the offline chain in addition to the calibrating software.

When that's set up, I do a testrecording to confirm.
Quick and easy and quite telling if something is right or not.

For one show I am working on, the director really wants the offline files to look like "what he sees", except that he wants to reclaim the highlights.

I have made some presets for 800-320 daylight, 800-250 daylight, and will be making a 800-250 tungsten and 800-160 tungsten.

He's been really happy with the results and is supposed to be extremely demanding.
But I still change from the presets, if I so desire...
Use you eyes.

Listen to what the DoP tells you about what he/she wants to see in the image on set, don't try to teach. Accomodate wishes and make on-set life smooth, while still contribute to a well exposed RAW file...

Everybody wants the full latitude, and most will say they want that on set, but I find that practically _some_ wants to see the full latitude, while others want to see a really punchy and "finnished" image on set. You have to have ways to accomodate both.

I don't mind cheating... If that works the best -:)
As long as I know the monitoringchain and signalpath...

I had a DoP going lower and lower on his calibrated monitors to really get them blacks down, quickly approaching underexposing @ redgamma/800. He still didn't want to lower the ISO, because he frequently uses the highlightprotection that setting offers and is very comfortable with that.

So I just set the contrast on his monitor to "11" and even upped the brightness a bit (he is used to the highlights blowing on his monitor, while I get them back when preparing the offlines), and he's been happy ever since.

While I get a bit more headroom on both sides of the scale.

Don't let "formal" knowledge hinder practical solutions, as long as you have the formal knowledge and know the consequences. Make the DoP happy and get a good exposure at the same time -:)

This system now works so well, that I am gladly handling it over to an other DIT, while I go on to other tasks. It's been verified by the director, the DoP, the editor and the colorists.

Cool. Next.

Some DoPs are more than happy to use false color and other cameratools to check exposure. Others really do NOT want to see anything but the exposed image. You must accomodate for both without trying to teach a DoP his/her craft. That is YOUR craft... -:)

Why am I mentioning this?
Calibration is not allways about "technically right", but sometimes more about a "verified signalchain" and practical approaches to aestethic demands...

And that may or may not change from production to production. There is no "right for all" solutions I know of. Be practical. Know your signal -:)

Finally:
Be humble and confident at the same time... Act and be secure on everything you KNOW the answer to, but do tests when you are unsure - and be open about it. That doesn't lower other peoples confidence in you (on which they rely), it makes them more confident when you check out stuff which you need to check out. Don't presume that it is solveable, if you are not certain and know how to solve it.

It is a good thing to have some basic knowledge about most of the professions you relate to and what is needed where...
You dont have to excell at them, but it good to be able to discuss photography with the DoP, coloring with te colorist an VFX needs with the VFX artist, so go and have some fun with playing with the camera and the files!

Preparing files for online is a totally different game (even when one do a RAW grade) IMHO, and for that, a P3 emulation is not such a bad idea.

My main concern is to make "gradeable" files for the intended delivery, which gives some other parameters to consider.

But that is more of a conform for online subject than a DIT subject, I guess...

We'll be testing open EXR/RLF for VFX this week, but I guess that's where we're landing for VFX shots.

Would be fun to hear Brooks input on this.

Just my extra 2c of input...
 
I would like to add another track to this thread.. I'd like you all to also discuss your equipment package in a little more detail.

Spicifically, is your cart set up to:

Manage Data? If so how? How many CF drives can you offload too at once? (I.E. How many incoming pipes do you have? What are your speeds?

what is your offload procedure? To an internal or extrnal raid? Or do you offload to more than one drive at once? How do you accomplish this with decent speed? Do you use LTO backup tape? If so when? How many depts do you have to deliver footage too?

Tell you what... Screw it.. Let's just stay on Data Management, talk about equipment only in how it supports that goal. What I'd like to know is this:

You are aware that a drive on a RED/HPX200/ALIEXA/5D is full.. List every step you take from the time the drive gets into your hand (I'd also like to know HOW it got into your hand) up until the time you ERASE the drive, and send it back into rotation for camera.

This is a BIG ONE.. So take your time..

Jay
 
Ouch... -:)

That's a long one.

I'll do it short, though and let others add...

At least two copies of the original material.

NEVER erase media before you have a verified transcode.

Actually this is a huge argument for offline/online workflows vs "RAW only". I have yet to see a bad frame copy which is not picked up by either the transcoding process or the r3d manager. I have seen frames pass one of them, but not both.

I have yet to see bad media (except from frame-drops to Red - RAIDS used under in unfot conditions. I am not too happy with the 16 GBs, though, as things recorded to them needs to be treated with more precaution in the copyprocess and I look foreward to the SSDs...)

Just to start it...
 
Jay,

One thing you need to remember is that DIT works on more than just Red shoots. The DIT job on an F35 show is very different from a Red job and that is a little different from an Alexa job, etc, etc, etc...

For a list of all the kit I use as a DIT and different workflows, will take sometime to get organized before posting.

Mac Pro tower on cart when possible. Macbook Pro when I need to go small. Every kind of card ready I can find that works. Large fast raid on cart for initial transfer. Two esata drives for show copies. One for production and one for post. LTO4 tape.

Software depends on camera. FCP, MC5, R3D data manager, 3cP, Clipfinder, Redcine X, Red Alert, Redline with custom scripts, Sequence Liner, Plural Eyes, Compressor...

And much more.


Dusty
 
ok, so here it is ( i am sure that i will forget something though ;)
grab the full drive from the camera,
mount the new one,
format,
check the naming of the mag(b-cam etc.)
shoot a short 5 sec. clip and playback (if time allows it)
tell the clapper and script girl the new mag names.
go to your dit station,
make 2 copies with r3d manager
fw800 to macpro to external esata drives,
the place where its stored depends on how the production wants to deal with it,
right now i copy to 2 independant drives through a esata pci card,
copy always from the red drive,
check the original red files on the drives (how many clips, are all the proxies there?)
check and watch the files in rx
1st light CC
(sync sound----reallly really rare)
export as mxf, prores whatever
open avid, fcp whatever amd look through the offline
files (was the transcode was flawless)
does it look like your 1st light?
 
at wrap, ill copy the sound files to both drves, one drive stays with me, one goes to the posthouse and will be back uped on a server, will be
be synced there and will be edited there.

dailies, syncing etc on set really depends on how much money the production is willing to spent, how many cameras are shooting simoultanous ( 2 days ago we had a 6 camera shooting day with red, 35mm, canon 5d, canon 7d and a sony).

to protect yourself, so there will be no the dit screwed it, make
a protocoll...
write down, when the AC did forget to push the record button, did pushed twice, so record started and ended immediatly and therefore there is am empty folder ( usully the next clip starts seconds later)
the clapper wrote down a wrong mag name,
the lockit wasnt synced after powering down,
the battery fell off,
the drive cable was hit hart,

then, while checking the footy in rx look for blown out areas, rolling shutter artefacts, moire effects, strange halo effects, check focus
tell your observations to the dp
without a rocket, never say yes for onset transcoding, because for sure the back up cam will become the second unit cam and footy can add up to 200 min. a day :)
 
Lots of good advice given above. I like to use a mac tower when possible. I have it in a roadcase and its actually not such a big deal to lug around. I set up a small system monitor paired with a 24" tv logic connected via hd-sdi from the RR card and dvi to the computer (also to camera via hd-sdi when possible) that I can switch between. A good UPS while heavy is a must. My gear is set up on a magliner and lifts into the camera truck. We'll be setting up our own dit van someday soon I hope.

Keeping organized and good communication, especially with the script supervisor and camera ac's, are critical. I like to make 3 copies and keep one for myself that I can enter notes into the metadata with and keep as my own personal insurance policy. I did a feature last year where the film lab somehow lost a few rolls even though there were two copies provided.

An easy way to be hero.

I find clipfinder still to be the most useful software and use it to enter slate/scene/take info directly into the r3d metadata that can be imported to avid or fcp. I make multiple clipfinder documents to fulfill different roles ie. one for problem shots, one for every day, all clips at the end etc. I can then export an xsl + pdf that has a thumbnail and lists all metadata for every shot.

Spend a good amount of time learning all the various monitoring solutions available and how to maintain a consistent (and accurate!!) image across what are sometimes less than perfectly maintaned gear. Spend time when you can with the DP to learn how he wants the images to look - especially key if you are grading the proxies before transcode. But I guess this should be obvious. Don't be shy about disagreeing with a DP but don't beat a dead horse - remember its his/her name on the credits - unless there are such consistent and drastic problems requiring the knowledge of the director/producers. And if you find yourself in such a uncomfortable posistion then be diplomatic and keep it quiet. Don't share problems except with those who need to know!!!

Bring your own power cables - at least 200-300' - and wire power for yourself on a dedicated line that you mark as clearly as possible that it should not be disturbed - g&e will desperatly try to yank power from you at the worst times guaranteed.

Finally don't set yourself up to defend red - red bashing amongst ac's seems to be a full time past-time. Take it in stride and joke along because especially older ones who come from film sometimes feel they have lost control over some aspect of the camera and cn resent this - in essence you are replacing the 3rd ac. At the same time if you want to help move stuff around thats great (especially since they might return the favor) but also carve out a niche for yourself that retains as much independence as you can and don't make compromises that can jeopardize following best practices. If you absolutely have to (for example when you are asked to deal with a reddrive the next morning) let as many people know as you can that this is not the right way. Just don't be annoying about it.

I found what Gunleik had to say about how to make different clients happy by taking your own expert knowledge about exposure and the post pipeline etc. very good advice. Remember to be a DIT is not just about data management, you are there to help get the most out of the camera and insure the whole digital pipeline fits together.

Well.... anyway that's what came off the top of my head.

best,

noel
 
Data management, RED, drama production:

1) capture. I usually change mag on 90% (10% used). This will usually mean 3-5 mag changes each day with one cam. Mark your mags and never change your naming convention during a shoot.

2) transfer. FW800 -> r3d DM -> 2x RAID eSATA (RAID1 and RAID5). After each day I take the RAID1 home and generate LTO during the night. The RAID5 is the production copy that will go to post. With a Cache-a you generate LTO during the day.

3) format. Generate offline and dailies. Look trough them. Format original mag.

I do not care for having too much material on the mag, this will screw a good turnaround during a shooting day. I do not know my speeds, never needed to speed things up. I always handle one mag at the time regardless of how many cameras shooting. We usually set each camera up with 3 reddrives each - so its never a problem with transfer/transcoding times. RedRocket is a must have on Pro productions!

Dailies goes out to DoP, Dir, Producer.
Offline goes to post house with sound.
I never synch! - I do not find that this should be a DIT job. I always try having a downmix from the sound guy and record this in camera for dailies sound.

Commercials can vary allot depending on budget. But this is my main setup and procedure. ALWAYS make a report of what you have done/discovered/not done.

@Noel: I have not forgotten you about the Keyframe beta! Exiting stuff are happening. We will release on NAB, if we don't make that deadline the project will be closed.

Cheers
 
i started to use only red rams on set, less hassle with dropped frames:)
every cam has 3 drives ( 2 minimum),
i change when a scene is finished---better while doing the 1st light.
steadycam is with 16gb cf cards, having 3 card readers on set.
beside a macpro there is a macbbook pro with an esata express card too.
plus an imac just for fun.
having bootcamp is smart too, once in a while there is a phantom shoot and their footage is treated best with a PC.
beside r3d datamanger, i have disk warrior, aasnyc, fcs, avid,mpegstreamclip, renamer4mac, appzapper,redundead, redcine-x, old redcine.
i also have a timemachine backup of the system and 2 sata drives for safety.
and USB sticks, dvd roms, all the cables thrice, back up cf module, backup red cables.
and internet through the iphone/usb stick so i can read reduser,
i have playstation 3 in the bus too, not for bluerays, i'll play with the drivers
soccer while rendering ;)
have a walkie
 
Yes and double yes to reports.

I actually like them on paper... -:)

Easily verifyable.

When that question pops up a year later on what happened to shot-X, the report is your only chance.

We have two trollies + a car.
Pretty much te same setup as Andreas suggested, we just pulled out the Qio and replaced it with "real" eSata cards. To many conflicts with other hardware. After pulling the plug on that, everything became stable.

We use Dreamcolors over aja/hdmi + DVI instead of the Eizo. So far very happy with those.

For RED stuff, the Rocket is a must.

Nick Shaw has made a very nice Alexa LUT plugin for FCP. Clipfinder will be capable to apply them in a future release. Works "out of the box" both ways.

I also like to have Shake on the machine to quickly test comps and keys while still on set...

Why not Nuke?
Because I have Shake and can still quickly do what I need there.
Nuke is of course better. I just don't know it yet.
 
Jeff.. I'm still waiting for your input!

Guys, all of this feedback, and your willingness to do it so well, is changing my plans a little and giving us some major cool ideas that you will be involved in more than you know.

For those DITs that really run with this, you are going to have a MAJOR thing.. I think you will love it. We need to continue this converation a bit more, since i am not done with my questions.

Let's review a couple things that have surprised me.

Some of you sync sound? I found that surprising, and do not believe that's a core responsibilibty of a DIT. I look at it as an "additional service" that some of you aggessive professional types have taken on.

The same for transcoding. I could see transcoding a TEST, but really transcoding it all?
I see that as an additonal service as well.

Ok I guess aside from basic data management, they are ALL additional services, but I see these two as very specialized..

Thoughts and opinions?

Let's work through this, and then I'll bring up the next thing..
 
By the way.. You have spoken briefly about power.. But not specifically.

I assume you all have UPS on your carts.. What kind? What other power safety options do you employ?

Jay
 
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