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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DIT Pre-Pro questions

Cüneyt Kaya said:
i am using a bus,
it its equipped with 4 seats (3 visitors)
it has emergency power for 2 hrs.
its equipped with a rocketstation and a couple of eizo monitors.
when everybody goes i sometimes go through footage with the director and dp/or producer
Click to expand...

That's pretty awesome. Got any photos?
 
AaronPicot said:
1 - Where do you prefer to live on set? Near camera carts/video village/sound/etc? If so, how are you transporting your gear?
--This seems relatively unimportant, but this has been my biggest conundrum.....Hints/tips/suggestions? Like my dark room method?
Click to expand...

Ideally a camera truck darkroom would be great, pretty much ideal if you don't have a space of your own.

This is always an issue with me too, on smaller shows you're lucky to have a truck, sometimes it's only a van, sometimes you're sharing a truck with production so you have PAs loading tables and chairs all the time.

It varies day to day. But usually not set up near video village, usually a little further away. Sometimes in the truck, sometimes tucked into a dark corner or adjacent room on location, and sometimes in my blackout tent. The WIND is the biggest problem with tent I've experienced, even with 30 lb bags holding it down on all sides. I've parked huge air conditioners in there with me and my cart to keep it cool during the summer heat and humidity, and it helps but isn't ideal. I try to move as few times as possible on a given day, all depends on the schedule.

Unfortunately right now I can't do what I'd really like, which is build my own vehicle for this purpose. A Transit Connect would be great, I could darken it down with duv on the windows and it has enough headroom to operate a cart, but is a small enough vehicle to get into parking structures and my own garage. Eventually I'd like to have a mobile setup that I could just drive up to location, and roll out on a cart if possible, but operate within the vehicle for most situations. Having a portable generator and air conditioner would keep from running the engine all day and would be necessary in extreme weather. But the costs involved are hard for me to justify at this point, but hopefully after the next show or two is in the books something can happen for me.
 
As everybody has stated, it is ever changing with the production. Ideally, working in a studio setup is the best. Same place all day, you can chuck in all the gear you want, with plenty of space and not worrying about all the outside calamities that can occur. I'm seriously looking into a more mobile solution with enough horsepower to get through the day. The new mobile rocket raid coming out from maxx digital looks very promising. a great hybrid in performance and mobility. Smaller UPS to lug around, pci express slots for faster connections and rocket card, internal raid, and having a nice 17 inch mcp with ssd inside. Allows for good media management, performance, and mobility.

Yeh it's going to take a hit in processing performance, but I at the moment like Chris can't afford the cost of a truck at the moment, and the goal is to try to be as smart as you can about what you do. Everybody project can't always afford nor is it practical to have the truck and full stations. Some location work even on bigger budget stuff may still not be practical if the schedule requires you to do company movies 3-4 times in the same day.

Ideally I'd want the mobile rocket package as a backup/redudant/lower budget or higher mobile solution, and would find a good way to truck around a big foot cart with the mac pros you need for the higher level setups. Van/Truck generator combo is probably most ideal, never liked the idea of tents. Setup and break down time with your equipment, I'm always afraid to hang up production. I always do my best to try to be one of the first people on set, and be done by the time camera is packed and ready to move. (unless i'm offloading a RED drive they wouldn't let me offload for half the day and I'm still making copies... Ugh.)
 
Tom.Wong said:
Ideally I'd want the mobile rocket package as a backup/redudant/lower budget or higher mobile solution, and would find a good way to truck around a big foot cart with the mac pros you need for the higher level setups. Van/Truck generator combo is probably most ideal, never liked the idea of tents. Setup and break down time with your equipment, I'm always afraid to hang up production. I always do my best to try to be one of the first people on set, and be done by the time camera is packed and ready to move. (unless i'm offloading a RED drive they wouldn't let me offload for half the day and I'm still making copies... Ugh.)
Click to expand...

Though expensive, I'm thinking more and more of building a lunchbox machine, maybe a hackintosh, maybe windows, to allow me good computing power and the ability to add PCI cards to a mobile setup. Even though they're expensive, when you factor in the mobile rocket box and the cost of a 17" MBP, things start to even out a bit.

Most of the time my call is at shooting call, there's really no need for me on set at general crew call with the way things usually end up working on my gigs. Even if I have to set up everything in my tent on location I'm up and running in less than 30 minutes, the only thing that makes this take longer is rarely my doing. When rolling two cameras on vehicle mounts or boats at magic hour I inevitably have dozens of GB of media to offload at the end of the day, so the production saves a little on the OT by having me come in a little later, cause it's always a log jam at wrap. Once backups are complete and my computer is shut down I'm no more than 20 minutes from waking away though.
 
AaronPicot said:
3 - Dailies. I hate DVDs, but they seem to be the easiest, most convenient for those who need to see dailies. Need a new method. I've looked at the "iPod" thing, the "upload to an online service" thing and the "handing out a 'flask' drive" thing. They all have too many potential issues. Is there a better way? Without getting too specific, what is your preferred method?


No further questions.

I thank you.
Picot
Click to expand...
some h264 to an usb stick
 
AaronPicot said:
3 - Dailies. I hate DVDs, but they seem to be the easiest, most convenient for those who need to see dailies. Need a new method. I've looked at the "iPod" thing, the "upload to an online service" thing and the "handing out a 'flask' drive" thing. They all have too many potential issues. Is there a better way? Without getting too specific, what is your preferred method?


No further questions.

I thank you.
Picot
Click to expand...

I have a small portable HDD with and HDMI connection and remote that I can load H.264 dailies onto (basically Apple TV video files) and hand over to whoever. Easy to connect to any LCD TV for home viewing. Has analog connections too if necessary.
 
AaronPicot said:
That's pretty awesome. Got any photos?
Click to expand...

its this bus, but set up changed.
http://www.jola-rent.de/index.php?id=622
its a prototype i am testing on production.
you bring your dit stuff, rest is there, enough secure plugs, heaters, coolers, place for cables, drives.
pretty comfortable to work with. the lighting is incient.
you can power it with 220 watt.
another plug for heaters/coolers is there too.
there is an generator to be totally independant too.
you can set up a network if you like too and share the bus with the editor.
i cant imagine working in the back of a camera truck.
 
AaronPicot said:
2 - LUTs. When is the best time to make these? During pre-pro camera tests? Or on set right before you pull the trigger on a shot? If you do it during pre-pro, you aren't going to have the same light as you will on the day, especially for interiors and night stuff. If you do it on the day, you could be in a seriously crunched-for-time stressful situation.
Also, how much are you controlling different LUTs for different monitors on set? Does the DP usually have his/her own monitor with a specified look applied to it? Is it a different LUT than video village/director's monitor? I'm confused on how do accomplish this task if it's required. Is there a good resource somewhere for more insight on this? Are you, as a DIT, setting up and operating/maintaining video village? I assume it's different on every show, but I'd like to get a feeling for the norm.
Click to expand...

what we do.
shoot day ext, day int, night int, some rolling shutter tests and tests for special purposes (quad,steadycam, etc and test the set ups), filters, make up...
then we did load everything to a baselight and the colorist, director and dp set up a look.
then we get as close as possible in redcine-x to that look, compare the onsetmonitors, editing monitors, dit monitors, director and dp's private monitors/laptops and match them as close as it gets so everybody does see almost the same.
on set monitoring for the dp is in raw, the directors monitor is matched to the look though.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
on set monitoring for the dp is in raw, the directors monitor is matched to the look though.
Click to expand...

How do you accomplish this? Is this two, separate HD-SDIs out of each RED? Is it just camera menu functions that need adjusting? Is there other hardware involved?

Thanks.
 
I have my own DIT van (a small VW Transporter) and my own power, which makes it possible to keep a Mac Pro running for about 4-5 hours. I would recommend that to any DITs out there. My van is very much a work-in-progress thing so I'll post pictures when I've fully figured out what the best lay-out for the van is. But I love the fact of having my own quiet place to keep things safe and stored away from everyone else (including bad weather). At one point I hope I can afford a bigger van so there's enough room for me and a few others to sit there and watch footage. For everyone interested in the van-discussion please follow these great thread here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42724

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36113

Re call-times... On some productions I meet at regular call-time but sometimes I meet at lunch. It depends if the production is willing to pay me overtime for checking footage after wrap. When I meet at lunch I always make sure the AC has enough media to start up the next day and I usually label everything up so it's ready to go in the morning.

For me personally - making movies is a team-effort and that's what I think is the most fun so I like to meet at call-time; also just because I get a better connection with everyone on the team.

Something that hasn't been mentioned previously that I think is very important is the fact that the DIT has to be a people-person. I've met a lot of people commenting on the fact that I'm actually around the set and helping out; the other DITs they've been working with just came and collected the drives and didn't talk to anyone. As a DIT I think it's important (and fun) to part of the team.
 
My top tips are as follows:

1. Be self contained on set with power and transport.
2. Do a complete workflow test with sound and picture before shooting. (this will involve all relevant people).
3. Have a close dialog with the DoP before and during shooting. Be aware of what color profile your monitors are set to.

I also use a Van. 10 ohrs of battery power, Eizo Color EdgeCG245W, Panasonic BTLH2550, A raid5 enclosure, raid1 enclosure, Cache-A LTO, Projectiondesign Action25 projection for focus analysis. - And of course a buddha statue to keep a positive energy so that your MacPro don't crash =) - make a clone of your system disk in case it breaks.

I deliver dailies on a rugged lacie hard drive - h264 - works great.

After chewing trough 100Tb (10 feature films and 3 TV series) of red material it all comes down to one thing that I find most important: Back Up. This is your main concern and what you need to do every day. You generate dailies, offline, set LUTs, one light, maintaining/setup of camera and all the other stuff, but if you not have a safe backup setup you of course are screwed. This might sound easy, but sometimes you are on very demanding locations - so be prepared and study the production schedule so that you don't get any nasty surprises.

Also: I must say that to be a DIT is the best job in the world!! =) You get to be a professional geek, you get to see all the material and really learn allot about filmmaking form technical aspects to artistic decisions.

Good luck mate!
 
Calibrate, test, recalibrate, re-test, make sure, be able to give correct answers and examples on the fly, allways give the right answers once more, and be capable of backing up your answers with examples, back up, check calibration, be happy!

Know what's right for offline, VFX and online.

Get that DR floating down the pipeline in the right way for each application...

BTW

This post is independent of the issue of a RAW vs RGB workflow
 
Andreas Herzog said:
My top tips are as follows:

1. Be self contained on set with power and transport.
2. Do a complete workflow test with sound and picture before shooting. (this will involve all relevant people).
3. Have a close dialog with the DoP before and during shooting. Be aware of what color profile your monitors are set to.

I also use a Van. 10 ohrs of battery power, Eizo Color EdgeCG245W, Panasonic BTLH2550, A raid5 enclosure, raid1 enclosure, Cache-A LTO, Projectiondesign Action25 projection for focus analysis. - And of course a buddha statue to keep a positive energy so that your MacPro don't crash =) - make a clone of your system disk in case it breaks.

I deliver dailies on a rugged lacie hard drive - h264 - works great.

After chewing trough 100Tb (10 feature films and 3 TV series) of red material it all comes down to one thing that I find most important: Back Up. This is your main concern and what you need to do every day. You generate dailies, offline, set LUTs, one light, maintaining/setup of camera and all the other stuff, but if you not have a safe backup setup you of course are screwed. This might sound easy, but sometimes you are on very demanding locations - so be prepared and study the production schedule so that you don't get any nasty surprises.

Also: I must say that to be a DIT is the best job in the world!! =) You get to be a professional geek, you get to see all the material and really learn allot about filmmaking form technical aspects to artistic decisions.

Good luck mate!
Click to expand...


Wow, Serious setup you have there Andreas.
I'm looking to build out my DIT kit bit by bit as the productions I work on go up in scale and bring in more money with them.

A portable flightcase/rackmount for my mobile laptop based setup which will allow me to do unit moves without unplugging everything and wrapping each piece of equipment and each cable away is one of my top priorities right now, but I'm looking into decent monitoring options so that I can begin to offer proper one lights and look setups as and when I get to work on a production that want's them. I was just wondering how you calibrate all your screens & projector? It would be great to find this out from someone working at your level.
 
AaronPicot said:
2 - LUTs. When is the best time to make these? During pre-pro camera tests? Or on set right before you pull the trigger on a shot? If you do it during pre-pro, you aren't going to have the same light as you will on the day, especially for interiors and night stuff. If you do it on the day, you could be in a seriously crunched-for-time stressful situation.
Also, how much are you controlling different LUTs for different monitors on set? Does the DP usually have his/her own monitor with a specified look applied to it? Is it a different LUT than video village/director's monitor? I'm confused on how do accomplish this task if it's required. Is there a good resource somewhere for more insight on this? Are you, as a DIT, setting up and operating/maintaining video village? I assume it's different on every show, but I'd like to get a feeling for the norm.
Click to expand...

NO, I'm not operating video village. On a two-camera feature I really hope not to ever have to do this. It would be nice to have a dedicated video assist operator for playback, that I would no doubt work very closely with.

As I understand you can do a live coloring adjustment to SDI monitors via 3cP and and HDLink Pro, but I've yet to have this requested, which is good (for me) because I can't afford to drop the thousands it would cost right now! In my experience the DPs all do various things, but most doing a baseline setting for the cameras that leaves room for some touch-up at my station or later in post.

BUT, with the above mentioned hardware I could see how this could easily be accomplished if not set up in camera tests during prep. Out of the camera to my station, apply LUT via 3cP, back out to VTR, and then to whatever monitors is needed. That way playback from his/her station is always going to contain the applied LUTs.

There are some VTR guys on this board I believe, that may have more detailed information, maybe they'll chime in too.
 
LUTs from camera to monitors is more of an F35 style of DIT workflow than a Red style DIT workflow. Most use a Panavision box for that.

I have been thinking about getting the HDlinkPro to see how well that works with 3cP. Since I mostly do Red shoots it is easier to dial looks into the camera metadata or into the RSX file after the footage is on my cart. I still have issues with 3cP though.


Dusty
 
Dustin Cross said:
LUTs from camera to monitors is more of an F35 style of DIT workflow than a Red style DIT workflow. Most use a Panavision box for that.

I have been thinking about getting the HDlinkPro to see how well that works with 3cP. Since I mostly do Red shoots it is easier to dial looks into the camera metadata or into the RSX file after the footage is on my cart. I still have issues with 3cP though.


Dusty
Click to expand...

Yeah I recall your thread asking how to make 3cP more viable and useful. I was about to pull the trigger on that before that post, so now I'm evaluating it a lot more, as much as I can, before deciding to purchase or not.
 
Quentin_B said:
A portable flightcase/rackmount for my mobile laptop based setup which will allow me to do unit moves without unplugging everything and wrapping each piece of equipment and each cable away is one of my top priorities right now, but I'm looking into decent monitoring options so that I can begin to offer proper one lights and look setups as and when I get to work on a production that want's them. I was just wondering how you calibrate all your screens & projector? It would be great to find this out from someone working at your level.
Click to expand...

For a laptop solution we use a MBP with express34 slot connected to a Sonnet QIO. Out of the QIO you can connect two Caldigit 2,5" raid1 (eSATA) and power it all with 12V/battery. Put it all in a peli case with foam that are cut to fit the hard drives/QIO/laptop. This will give you a proper backup solution 2x raid1 backup. You'll need to distribute your power so go trough a small fuse box. I would really recommend the Panasonic BT-LH2550 witch has a dvi-d and 12V that you can use with the laptop. It's also pretty cheap compared to more high end ref monitors. The panel is abit slappy in the blacks and contrast (Eizo is better on that), but you still have a decent display. Its also nice to be able to hook up to the camera (hdsdi) and see the waveform live. This is of course not a RAW image representation, but you have a tool to at least confront the DoP when he/she totally burns out the signal so that you can double check whats going on with the RAW values in camera.

Calibration: This is not always easy to get right and I'm no expert on this! But with 4 years of "learning by doing" I maybe have some pointers... All monitors behave somewhat different color wise when its not the same brand - unfortunately. The last year more monitors have come with a DCI calibration with a 2.6 gamma that will represent a Digital Cinema Image - but on set this option can be somewhat confusing so I don't use this yet. First find out what profile/calibration final grade and the editor are using. I usually calibrate the editors monitor with an eyeone - set to 6500K, 2.2 gamma - this will make my offline files more or less correct in the whites and in the blacks. If the monitor has native profiles I set it to rec 709 for TV work or Adobe RGB for movies.
A final grade suite can vary allot. They usually have a Barco ref monitor and a 2K projection, all set to 2.6 gamma. More and more have a correct DCI image, thats why I'm trying to get DCI calibrated on set situation going, but this will almost certain mess up a correct offline calibration. So you need to make a choice as I see it - correct edit or correct final grade for a RAW workflow. In a RGB workflow I would focus on correct offline colors.

In our MacPro lab solutions we use the new Eizo with an integrated calibration eye, works very well. Rec 709 for TV and Adobe RGB for movies. I use the Adobe RGB because this option seems to give me the most constant color representation on different brands. But be aware that Adobe RGB has a very wide color range. For me its more important that the monitors looks the same in color and contrast/gamma than it might be 100% correct towards the post house. It always turns out great anyways=)

I think maybe Gunleik can go more in detail on calibration. I'm happy with my setup, the DoP is happy and the final grade process usually goes without any big confusions. Problem is usually in a RGB workflow that the final grade don't get as nice as the offlines that are graded in RAW and delivered in 1080p ProRes 1/2 premium debayer... I'm working on a movie right now that will be the first time we test a RMD workflow towards Nucoda FilmMaster.

A aspect that also are important is your viewing conditions. In the van all walls are grey and I have a light behind the Panasonic monitor to give me correct contrast for my eyes. This is for cinema productions. When doing TV I add more light to the room in general to compensate the contrast on screen to a realistic TV viewing condition.

cheers -

I'm actually on set right now in my van... I love this job!
 
Wow, awesome in depth post there Andreas. Thank you so much for all the info, and all the time you spent posting it!

I hope all goes smoothly with the RMD -> Nucoda workflow.
 
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