Direct to HD DVD Red One or Sony EX3

[Peter Hodgins]

I am going to film my first feature ... it is going direct to HD DVD.
I will be using FCP.
Should I get a Red One with the 18-50mm lens or use a Sony EX3?
(I will compose shots based on lens capabilities ... should be no problem ... I can "write" for either lens)
Will there be a noticeable difference between the finished result depending on the camera. If the Red One is "better", how is this manifested?
Thanks.

 

[jimhare]

My opinion is you won't notice a difference in resolution or perceived clarity, but the lenses will make all the difference in the world.

35mm dof is gorgeous, and really noticeable when differentiating feature films from video.

My advice is get the RED, the Nikon mount, and some Zeiss ZF primes. They are absolutely amazing and you can get a full set for the same price (maybe less) as the RED 18-50.

I have used the 18-50 exclusively since getting my camera, but recently got the ZFs and am truly impressed.

They are much faster as well, between f1.4 and f2 so you can use them in almost any situation. I have the 85mm f1.4, 50mm f2 macro and 28mm f2.

If the budget allows, get the RED and ZFs, then upgrade to EPIC next year.

If you do decide to get the RED 18-50, let me know as I will probably be selling mine!:tongue:

Cheers,

Jim

 

[David W. Jones]

A good place to start would be to set a budget for your feature!
I also would not purchase a camera, lens set, and associated gear for a first feature.
Nor would I write the feature based on what lenses I could afford to purchase.

I would rent the appropriate gear needed based on the set budget,
and rent the appropriate lenses needed to tell the story.

Good Luck!

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Don't you mean Blu-Ray? HD DVD lost.

Since the RED has a 35mm-sized sensor, the footage is more likely to fall into the common look of most features, whereas with the 1/2" sensor of the EX3, you'll be working harder to minimize that look. There may also be subtle differences in how you handle the two cameras that affect the look, i.e. you're more likely to treat the RED camera like a film camera and the EX3 like a prosumer video camera in terms of designing shots, using the zoom, etc.

However, depending on your level of experience shooting and dealing with HD footage in post, you may or may not find the EX3 easier to use and to get into your editing system.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

EX3 is a great camera. I just tested one recently. With creative lighting, good composition, and knowing how to maximize the strengths of the camera (knowing how to set the gamma correctly, doing some "painting" inside the camera) you could probably shoot a pretty good movie with it.

But, where it will fall short quite often is the limitations of the lens. Putting a 35mm adapter on it is an option, but at that point, why not go to a Red. One reason I suppose would be the post workflow. You could argue that the EX3 will have an easier post workflow.

For me, having used both cameras, I would shoot a movie with Red One over EX3 in almost every case. If I were shooting an event, documentary, sports, low budget commercial, corporate video the decision becomes a lot tougher and in some cases, the EX3 wins out.

As David Jones points out, let your story dictate what tools you need to tell it. If you are looking to use shallow depth of field to help tell the story and guide the audiences eyes to what's important in the frame, then a 35mm style camera like Red One is probably your best bet.

 

[Michael Mayda]

The glass is where it's at. I have an EX1 that is great for some of my work, but for the "Big Stuff", I always shoot my Red with Zeiss High Speeds that are left over from my 35mm film work. Having the glass already was a big sales point for the Red. The Zeiss ZF's are probably a good economic choice that can provide the same sort of filmic look. I'm just glad I had the 'speeds and especially the 18mm T1.4... As for work flow, the EX1 is still simpler in some ways, but the Red process has come a long way recently. I'm using FCP and Adobe CS4 tools on my MacPro and CalDigit 4TB array. Burning to Blu-ray with Encore has gone surprisingly smoothly.

Good luck on your production, Peter!

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

As someone who just produced a film with the EX-1 (same chip as EX-3) I HAVE TO TELL YOU... dont record to SXS if you want feature film look!! please please rent a Wafian field recorder and record direct off the HD-SDI out...(you can simultaneously record back up on SXS) With a Wafian or comparable HD-SDI recorder you
can get 10Bit 4:2:2 which will be MUCH more fun to post than the CRAPPY Long GOP
compression on those SXS cards...it's 20 to 1 and a nightmare to work with in post
TRUST ME! especially if you want to do any compositing or grading. If you are going low budget, I would also recommend looking at the PANNY HVX 170 and a Letus or Brevis 35Mm adapter. P2 uses 10 to 1 and its a much better compression algorithm IMHO...and those ZEISS ZF lenses are ULTA HIGH QUALITY and only $3200 new
for set.

That said, I AGREE with other posters, unless you are DP, why buy a camera? . RENT a RED for heaven's sake and give extra the money to crew or cast. A camera is just a tool... its all about STORY first
and executing that story with quality creative talents. Paid people work harder than non-paid, go figure.

good luck!

 

[Chris Newman]

I don't understand why people say "rent!" Aren't rental prices per day about 5% of the purchase price? If your feature takes 20 days to shoot (a pretty fast schedule), you have paid for the purchase. Plus, you could sell the equipment at the end.

What am I missing?

 

[M Most]

I don't understand why people say "rent!" Aren't rental prices per day about 5% of the purchase price? If your feature takes 20 days to shoot (a pretty fast schedule), you have paid for the purchase. Plus, you could sell the equipment at the end.

What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that most rental packages also include accessories and lenses - the combination of which usually costs more than the camera body, especially in the case of a Red with good glass.

 

[David Wyatt]

HD-DVD?? :blink:

Didn't you hear the news (almost a year ago!!)?

http://gizmodo.com/357957/toshiba-kills-hd-dvd-official

Good luck with your feature [go with Red by the way...and Blu Ray :wink:]

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Rental companies usually offer a 3 day or 4 day week... and usually, you then only pay for 3 weeks on a monthly rate.

meaning only 9 to 12 "billable" rental days...At $500 a day (at lease in Portland where there are about 12 Red's) that's only $4500 to $6000
for a month... that is not even the cost of a RED zoom lens.

Do yourself a favor and hire a good line producer...they will save you their salary in DEALS if they are worth their weight on a low budget... and sometimes they get freebies as they are owed favors from high paying gigs... the catch is they have to LOVE your project, and for them, its all
about credit... especially if they are toiling as a UPM and need the LP
credit to get higher union rates.

for instance, on another movie that was shot in our studio in Sept... they hired the DP who owned a RED and he owned a grip and electric company... they got the RED free and a 5 ton grip trick for 18 days for $1500 for the run of the shoot...fortunately, the guy is also an awesome DP, which may not always be the case. But he wanted the credit for his reel, as he does mostly commercials and feature film credits on good indies are hard to get.

Indeed, there are lots of ways to get the gear you need...

PLUS with Red's no longer on back order, the rental rates are dropping significantly... I know people that used to get $9500 a month who would be thrilled to get $4 to $5K right now. especially for a feature.. day rates are for commercials... most all rental houses make deals for longer rentals.

hope this helps.