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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Digital Film recording expense

donatello said:
"we do a supervised correction from scratch with our Rembrandt color correction "

gotta watch the use of the word "scratch" .. isn't scratch a real time CC , editor that can handle RED 4k data ??
so is that you do a supervised CC from scratch and then use rembrandt for the film out ??
Click to expand...

Rembrandt is real time becasue it works with proxies just as I described. It cannot be slowed down by large frame sizes because you use a format like DVCPROHD for the proxy which can play back with corrections in real time.

However what I meant by scratch is that the color correction work would start with the raw data from the camera if possible, and each shot timed by the colorist with the filmmaker, instead of starting with frames that were already corrected.
 
number6 said:
I may be the only one looking at filmmaking this way, but my target is not a large theatrical distribution. (If a deal were offered, then that would be o.k.) My intention is to put something digital on a harddrive, try to promote it at the existing digital projection theatres, and go straight to dvd. If I have something that clicks, word-of-mouth will spread and the dvd will sell. If not, I'll make another one.
Click to expand...
I have successfully conducted a road show regarding digital projection system using GDC (http://www.gdc-tech.com) 2K Digital Cinema playout server along with a Panasonic DLP Projector in the Northeast India. My main interest on the show was to make the awareness of the Digital Cinema. As i was believing that the RED Digital Cinema will be emerged a huge market in Indian Cinema as soon as it enter into the region. Many of the regional film industry in India are now losing their business and production as well .... as the market is shifted to DVD and CD ........ reason I believe is the poor theatrical projections and the theatre owner are sticked with the old infrastructure and traditional distribution process.... as they were not having the secure business potential .... though the Bollywood is hapenning...
So once the the digital film making start without the 35mm, and the regional filmmakers and producer are thru with entire workflow...the demand of digital projection will definitely grow. ........ Now I am undertaking an RnD work for designing a less expensive PC/MAC base digital projection system using multi projection system...... anybody have better ideas please flash it on the forum....

With best

Anupam Saikia
http://www.xaansa.com
Mumbai
 
Hi Manjeet,
I have an option for you at a post facility in New Zealand.
If you are able to rough conform your film in
Final Cut Pro and Redcine to DPX files or 1080pHD 444 they can
prepare & grade a 2/4K digital master to disk for film out.
Pricing would be good as you would be one of the first thru
this new facility. They use IQ and Pablo for this and the film
burn would be thru Weta. LOR & King Kong.
NZ dollar is a bit below the US dollar and lot below the Euro at the moment.
Other options would be Thailand, Hong Kong, Indonesia.
A massive new lab is being set up on mainland China, don't know much
about it, a few Australians have gone to work there.
Color management and lab work can be an issue in some of these countries
and the final print quality would probably not meet the standard of
that found in New Zealand or Australia. I'm sure some form of DI is possible in India,
you might want to look into that first.


Send me a private message if interested in the NZ option.
Mezmo
 
parisrem said:
Going back to what people were saying before about just waiting for distribution or waiting for D-Cinema to be ubiquitous, if Red does with the price of 4k projectors anything like what they've done to the price of 4k cameras, theater owners will surely respond the same way that we all have to the camera. I'm only wildly speculating here, but if we take Red One as compared to other cameras as an example, we're looking at a differnce in price of somewhere around 10 to 1, or more. The Sony SXRD 4k projector is I think I read around $90,000-100,000. Again this is just speculation, but is it possible that Red might be able to make a 4k projector in the $9,000-10,000 range? Are the components that much more expensive or difficult to manufacture than the camera? I know that this doesn't solve the problem of distribution and deliverables right now. But depending on when they release their projectors, it could be a faster transition than expected. Just guessing...

Or if the price is that low, you could just buy a projector or two or five instead of doing a film-out, and drive around showing your movie out of the back of your truck. But that's a whole nuther distribution model entirely.
Click to expand...

Hi parisrem,
Unfortunatly the real money in film distribution is in multi screen release.
200-300+ screens. That way you can take advantage of the rather large
promotional P&A spent required to get a film out there in any given
market. Releasing on a small amount of screens will make you a small
amount of money, if that's all you've spent on making the film, (a small
amount of money) then that's fine, It's all good.
If at some point you or someone else want to give your film a bigger
release, then you have to join the FILM CLUB.
At the moment and probably for the next decade this requires a film print
as about 90% of cinemas worldwide are still running film.
You may say as some have suggested here that I only want to release
my film digitally in the US alone.
Given the fact that only about 1-2% of Independant Films (not studio films)made in the US find multiscreeen digital release you would have to make 98 films in one given year to get 1 or 2 *picked up* for this kind of multiscreen theatricial release. Or get Lucky

My point is, at the moment film release gives the Independant film maker
a broader opportunity to find a market and release for their projects.
This is a good thing and this may suffer with the advent of digital release.
Many here are in a big hurry to dump film and get digital going but we
should proceed with caution.
The control and encription technology required to go along with some
larger(studio) digital releases could do major damage to what is pretty
much (on a global basis) an existing Independant Film Distribution business.
This would be a bad thing.
Like you I'd like to see companies like Red offer digital alternatives,
with low cost high quality digital projection, so we can keep the distribution
business independant, still in business, and able to release our Indie films
on a multiscreen global basis.
Mezmo
 
I was reading about video for industrial broadcast ans heard sony shows are playing at 230m,ps waht format they use: avi? or dpx

is it true that high bitrates are used
ome more questions and how runs for a 4k movie at maxinum quality, is it true thye still cant match film quality even using dalsa thomosn viper or red

would someone describe the principal formats and how much they swaloww for a hour film,in dpx ,raw or other formats

dpx -??
avi? gigabytesçthanks sergio
 
ARRI laser, not ARRI scaner

ARRI laser, not ARRI scaner

laboprod said:
Manjeet, I do not really understand your comparison between RED images print back to film and DI.

As you wrote when shooting digitaly you skip the step of scaning your negativ film to do a digital grading.
But after that there is no reason for different price. Print back to film a 2k-4k film scan or print to film 2k-4k RED images involves the same technique (ARRI scanner) thus the same cost.


antoine
Click to expand...

I agree, but you probably mean ARRI laser (for printing to film), not ARRI scanner (which is telecine).
 
parisrem said:
Going back to what people were saying before about just waiting for distribution or waiting for D-Cinema to be ubiquitous, if Red does with the price of 4k projectors anything like what they've done to the price of 4k cameras, theater owners will surely respond the same way that we all have to the camera. I'm only wildly speculating here, but if we take Red One as compared to other cameras as an example, we're looking at a differnce in price of somewhere around 10 to 1, or more. The Sony SXRD 4k projector is I think I read around $90,000-100,000. Again this is just speculation, but is it possible that Red might be able to make a 4k projector in the $9,000-10,000 range? Are the components that much more expensive or difficult to manufacture than the camera? I know that this doesn't solve the problem of distribution and deliverables right now. But depending on when they release their projectors, it could be a faster transition than expected. Just guessing...

Or if the price is that low, you could just buy a projector or two or five instead of doing a film-out, and drive around showing your movie out of the back of your truck. But that's a whole nuther distribution model entirely.
Click to expand...

Anupam said:
I have successfully conducted a road show regarding digital projection system using GDC (http://www.gdc-tech.com) 2K Digital Cinema playout server along with a Panasonic DLP Projector in the Northeast India. My main interest on the show was to make the awareness of the Digital Cinema. As i was believing that the RED Digital Cinema will be emerged a huge market in Indian Cinema as soon as it enter into the region. Many of the regional film industry in India are now losing their business and production as well .... as the market is shifted to DVD and CD ........ reason I believe is the poor theatrical projections and the theatre owner are sticked with the old infrastructure and traditional distribution process.... as they were not having the secure business potential .... though the Bollywood is hapenning...
So once the the digital film making start without the 35mm, and the regional filmmakers and producer are thru with entire workflow...the demand of digital projection will definitely grow. ........ Now I am undertaking an RnD work for designing a less expensive PC/MAC base digital projection system using multi projection system...... anybody have better ideas please flash it on the forum....

With best

Anupam Saikia
http://www.xaansa.com
Mumbai
Click to expand...

Anupam, If I understand you correctly, I think you and I have the same vision. I eventually see neighborhood projection houses, privately ouned or perhaps even built and ouned by communities, who digitally show movies pretty much on demand.

The business model could even be that a bunch of these local projection houses would band together as co-operatives and put up money to finance a movie, with the co-operative movie houses receiving free and unlimited projection rights to these movies. The producer/director would have to present his or her script to the co-operatives' representatives and would have to adhere to their moral values in making the film, but it would create an outlet for fresh movie makers to get started. (I could never work under such constraints, but there would be many who would be willing to do so to get started)

If you are suggesting that movie houses can become more intimate and locally situated, then I agree with your thinking. I also think the technology is about to explode so that it will be very inexpensive to set-up. And I certainly agree that the RED One Digital Cinema camera will create a quick out turn from camera to projector. World wide, movies are going to be shot a mile-a-minute.
 
number6 said:
World wide, movies are going to be shot a mile-a-minute.
Click to expand...

Creating a bottleneck in distribution, let alone, how people are going to know which of these thousands of movies to see. Just this last week, I saw "Blade Runner", "Assassination of Jesse James", "Michael Clayton"... I'm seeing "Caravaggio" tonight... and I still need to get to the theaters and "Lust, Caution", "Elizabeth: The Golden Age" and a half-dozen other movies before the Christmas glut of more movies arrives, and that's while I'm between jobs before I get too busy to watch movies!

So I worry that someday, they will say the same thing about movies as they do now about poetry: "more people write poetry than read poetry."

The new phrase will be "more people are making independent features than are watching independent features."
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Creating a bottleneck in distribution, let alone, how people are going to know which of these thousands of movies to see. Just this last week, I saw "Blade Runner", "Assassination of Jesse James", "Michael Clayton"... I'm seeing "Caravaggio" tonight... and I still need to get to the theaters and "Lust, Caution", "Elizabeth: The Golden Age" and a half-dozen other movies before the Christmas glut of more movies arrives, and that's while I'm between jobs before I get too busy to watch movies!

So I worry that someday, they will say the same thing about movies as they do now about poetry: "more people write poetry than read poetry."

The new phrase will be "more people are making independent features than are watching independent features."
Click to expand...

Hah! David, your "work" would be another's dream (watching all those movies). And while I see the bottleneck of distribution you speak of at present, it's just my (admittedly limited) experience that everything is becoming new so fast that THAT may be in the process of change. When I saw red, I mean RED, I saw an unbroken line from scene to camera to computer to digital projector. With my general knowledge about that process, I had (have) the hubris to think I can do this myself.

I've caught some grief on this forum and in PMs as well, about that belief. And while I would prefer to do things in the traditional "assembly line" manner because it would be faster, I am unable to do so. But I now have a way forward that I understand and that will allow me to take my time and get it doun the way I see it. I can't play in the Olympic sized swimming pool, but I can splash around in the wading pool.

But as for the quote: "more people write poetry than read poetry", there was also the one that said: "there are more people making a living off cancer than there are dying from it", yet cancer is as popular as ever.

Cancer and movies don't usually correlate, but who knows, movies may become more popular than ever if they become more story driven.
 
manjeet said:
Hi Folks,

The moment I learnt about RED camera, I was about excited the new possibilities it promised in the world of cinema. Even promoted it to my friends, who might chip in to buy the camera. I am a aspiring film maker currently working in Bombay film industry as an assistant director. If any one of you have been to the city of Mumbai (Bombay) you would have noticed its flair for films. It produces the maximum no. of films in the world and it could buy tons of RED cameras! I wrote a blog on RED on a site, which is read by lot of film industry people:-
http://passionforcinema.com/a-promi...ent-film-makers-digital-cinema-by-red-camera/

After reading quite a lot of threads and comments found answers to lot of my questions but one thing, which concerns me:-
.To make 35mm prints from REDraw code, one will have to do the color correction and then print it to make 35mm version. This process would be lot simpler than Digital itermediate step as it would ommit the stage of scanning the negative, but color correction and print would remain. So the main question is, how much would it cost to make a 35mm print after CC? Will it be comparatively lot lesser than conventional DI? I heard a talk about using Nitris, how much would it cost on Nitris? I wuld be very happy to get a 2k print at a resonable cost.


I would be happy to assist the RED team if they have an eye on a huge Indian market in every possible way!

Thanks,

Manjeet
Click to expand...
In the next 5 years there will be at least 10 to 15000 digital projection theatres in India.By the time you come up with a good movie there will be options in every big city in India.
You will have plety of Reds fully enabled with all the accesaries in India including my 2 by Jan 08.
If you want to to play with them I will let you for free.Drinks are on you.
Ok to PM me.
My 2 c
babu
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Creating a bottleneck in distribution, let alone, how people are going to know which of these thousands of movies to see. Just this last week, I saw "Blade Runner", "Assassination of Jesse James", "Michael Clayton"... I'm seeing "Caravaggio" tonight... and I still need to get to the theaters and "Lust, Caution", "Elizabeth: The Golden Age" and a half-dozen other movies before the Christmas glut of more movies arrives, and that's while I'm between jobs before I get too busy to watch movies!

So I worry that someday, they will say the same thing about movies as they do now about poetry: "more people write poetry than read poetry."

The new phrase will be "more people are making independent features than are watching independent features."
Click to expand...

Hi David,
The problem is a lot of the studio films you mention above force a lot of
local (independent) content off screens in countries outside the US.
The films you mentioned are good movies but more often than not they
are packaged to exhibitors with a lot of other crappy studio content.
This content would probably have a hard time finding release if it was
not included in the package exhibition system.
Local content is pushed aside because Independent Theatre owners have
no choice, and in order to show the latest LA blockbuster they have to also screen the garbage. Earnings are cross colateralized over all the movies in
the package so that even the crappy movies still make money.
Is this a fair system?
The point is that people don't get a choice to see a good diversity of
content under the present system. They stay away from the cinema
and watch reality TV or go on the internet.
Most of the time the films discussed here are in considerable profit
by the time they get to screens outside the US so why destroy the
opportunity for people outside the US to show local content in local cinemas.
The greed word comes to mind.
Anything that helps this stupid system change is a fantastic thing.
Don't be concerned about people making too many movies because there
are already thousands of fantastic movies made worldwide that nobody got the opportunity to see in a cinema.
Cheers Mezmo
 
Hi Guys,
What happened here?
Am I living in a time warp or did a whole
lot of posts get dumped?
Anyone Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Hi Guys,
What happened here?
Am I living in a time warp or did a whole
lot of posts get dumped?
Anyone Mezmo
Click to expand...

Anything from10/15 to today at 3pm wiped out. simple server problem or
Sabotage
 
babubu said:
In the next 5 years there will be at least 10 to 15000 digital projection theatres in India.By the time you come up with a good movie there will be options in every big city in India.
You will have plety of Reds fully enabled with all the accesaries in India including my 2 by Jan 08.
If you want to to play with them I will let you for free.Drinks are on you.
Ok to PM me.
My 2 c
babu
Click to expand...

Hi Babu, wow! left a comment earlier, which dissapered:) also PMed you...where r u in India? Would like to get in touch with you buddy! you can reach me at manjeetpfc@yahoo.com
 
mezmo said:
Hi David,
The problem is a lot of the studio films you mention above force a lot of
local (independent) content off screens in countries outside the US.
The films you mentioned are good movies but more often than not they
are packaged to exhibitors with a lot of other crappy studio content.
This content would probably have a hard time finding release if it was
not included in the package exhibition system.
Local content is pushed aside because Independent Theatre owners have
no choice, and in order to show the latest LA blockbuster they have to also screen the garbage. Earnings are cross colateralized over all the movies in
the package so that even the crappy movies still make money.
Is this a fair system?
The point is that people don't get a choice to see a good diversity of
content under the present system. They stay away from the cinema
and watch reality TV or go on the internet.
Most of the time the films discussed here are in considerable profit
by the time they get to screens outside the US so why destroy the
opportunity for people outside the US to show local content in local cinemas.
The greed word comes to mind.
Anything that helps this stupid system change is a fantastic thing.
Don't be concerned about people making too many movies because there
are already thousands of fantastic movies made worldwide that nobody got the opportunity to see in a cinema.
Cheers Mezmo
Click to expand...

We have the power to change the distribution system by persuading our Local and National Governments to force any multiplex to assign a screen that will only show independent movies (then all we'll have to do is sleep with the person in charge.. lol). It's sort of easy..
Also Elizabeth is a rubbish movie: England is saved as the sole bastion for Liberty, and Walter Raleigh is off to sail back to America to build a shining new city.. Filmed and graded like an advert. Boring, predictable, nonsense...
 
fergus said:
We have the power to change the distribution system by persuading our Local and National Governments to force any multiplex to assign a screen that will only show independent movies (then all we'll have to do is sleep with the person in charge.. lol). It's sort of easy..
Click to expand...

Not in the USA. This kind of interference in private enterprise is absolutely unacceptable unless public airwaves are involved, when it would fall under the auspices of the FCC.
 
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