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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Difficulties in purchasing our RED

J

jim livesey

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I’m attempting to purchase a pretty complete RED package for our college and every step of the way has been painful. I have $70k+ approved (and sitting in our account) and all I hear is how RED doesn’t work that way.

This is the email I just got from the person that I have been dealing with for the last 5 months.

“our accounting department has informed me, that we cannot accept your terms and conditions and therefore, we are unable to complete your purchase order/bid request.

We do not accept purchase orders or bids as we are a sole provider of the RED ONE Camera and accessories.

For your order if you still want to place it, you can order it directly at www.red.com/store and we can provide you with an official pro-forma invoice after your order has been placed.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

I apologize for the inconvenience,”

What??????

RED doesn’t do quotes and they don’t do bids. But, real businesses do, and educational facilities definitely do. We need to get quotes and budget approval. And the quote needs to be good for more than 5 minutes.

We intended to order everything for last fall, but our quote wasn’t valid anymore. The RED drive didn’t exist. We got approval to change the quote and submitted that. However we missed the ordering cycle and had to wait.

We were ready to buy again at the end of September, but the old body was no longer available and we needed to get approval to change the quote again. From the time I requested the new quote until I received it was a full week. We missed the ordering cycle...again.

Why did it take a week to get a new quote. According to RED personnel ”these quotes have to be created line for line, so this will take me a while. Since you don't have an account I can't save your quotes” So I ended up sending him the quote he had sent me so that he could retype it with the changes.

The pdf of our quote was about 115kb, I still had it in my email, yet a person that in theory is trying to sell me a RED needs me to send it to them? Again, I’m confused. I almost sent him a USB flash drive for Christmas.

Finally we come to another ordering cycle. This time we need to do an RFP. The purchasing people at the college are a little concerned since we have already submitted 3 quotes on the same order and they want to make sure that everything is documented on the $70k purchase. They want to make sure that we are working with a real company.

Now, again, I am being told how RED doesn’t work that way. RED doesn’t do RPF. We need to order the RED way or don’t buy a RED.

I’m pretty much ready to give up. I’m tired of leaving messages that aren’t returned, tired of waiting for quotes, tired of being told how RED does it. I would think that someone would like to sell me a camera instead of making it this hard.

So, tomorrow I’m heading into the office and make some calls. Maybe I can find someone that wants to sell me a RED package before I lose this money.

Jim Livesey
Houston Community College
Professor Film Video and Special FX
 
First off, at the end of our emails from RED, we have the legal disclaimer about not distributing information pertained in emails between you and RED.

Second, you are upset that we have a certain business model and won't bend to your terms. Well, we have terms of sale on our end, too. In the end, we deal with plenty of schools on purchasing RED gear and, the vast majority if the time, reach a conclusion that works for RED and the school.

So, if you want to work together on this sale, I suggest talking to our sales manager, Kelly, tomorrow. I just do not suggest copying-and-pasting communications between you and RED. That is going to hurt the cause, not help it.

BC
 
I've always wondered about the effectiveness of those disclaimers, good to finally know... though I wouldn't recommend making red angry =)
 
Jim - I feel your pain, but RED works the way RED works. We're all in the same boat but if RED doesn't support the way you want to business with them then you will need to find someone who does and buy the camera from them 2nd hand. Sounds to me like the problem is on your side with lots of bureaucracy and way too stringent systems.
 
I have some sympathy- RED is not the easiest company to establish a business relationship with.

That said, I agree with Tony. RED's terms for establishing a business relationship are not onerous- just unusual. It is your organizations stiff bureaucracy that is in your way, not RED.

RED isn't a huge company like Dell or even Canon. They sell thousands of items, not hundreds of thousands or millions like many of the companies your organization is set up to do business with.

Also, this idea that only "real" companies are set up quotes and bids or accept P.O's is non-sense. Maybe it made some sense when the policies were created... after all it used to cost a lot of money to set up those processes.

Today, I can set up a company in twenty minutes that can generate and accept what you claim to want.

Welcome to the 21st Century.

And that is the secret to successfully completing your business with RED.

Create a company for the express purpose of serving as an agent in transacting business with RED. They can generate your dumb forms, and execute the transaction. The school buys from the company. Once the company receives the gear, it can transfer ownership to the school.

Done deal.

Of course EVERY organization I have ever worked with, from local lawyers to DARPA and the US Air Force all have systems for "breaking the rules." Some way they can make a purchase of goods that can not be obtained using normal purchase procedures.

In other words for dealing with companies like RED.

Perhaps you aren't getting appropriate organizational support from your accounting department- or maybe you haven't escalated your issue to the appropriate authority level.

Remember that most bureaucracy isn't in place to make you follow rules, but rather to combat fraud. You've already crossed the "hard" part, getting funds authorized.

So... take a deep breath and find a work around.

Or, you could just buy an Alexa if you think ARRI will treat you better.

Best of luck to you.
 
jim livesey said:
Jim Livesey
Houston Community College
Professor Film Video and Special FX
Click to expand...
OK, you teach at a college, but you cannot purchase a camera. Do you know anyone at the college? Do you have a history and credibility at the college? If so go to your purchasing department, inform them of the situation, show them what you want and explain to them what RED requires. Then put your heads together, solve the problems on your end and wire RED the money. You should have your camera in a week or so. It's not Rocket Science.
 
Here’s a quick update for anyone that is interested. Kelly Carter has been working with me and we have started the bid process. Hopefully we can hammer out the differences in the terms and condition of our contract and RED’s, find a middle ground and purchase the equipment. I’m hopeful that we can all work together and make this happen.

Thanks for the suggestions made by other forum members they are appreciated. Unfortunately some are not a practical solution in our case. We are in essence a state school since we receive so much funding from the State of Texas. This makes purchasing some things very difficult because there needs to be accountability on how the funds are used, it’s not just bureaucracy, There has to be a paper trail that this money is not being used in an inappropriate manner.

Yes, there are always ways to make things work, but it takes work on both sides to accomplish it.

The RED is such a a phenomenal camera that will benefit our students, so I’m ok about the amount of time and effort that has gone into making the purchase happen. Yesterday it looked like it wasn’t going to happen. Today it looks like it may. Hopefully it will. I will keep updating this post as I have more information.

Thanks again for everyone's help and support today.
 
Have they told Jim about the Red tattoo yet?

:w00t:

In all seriousness Jim ...

This past December, we were shooting a job in Sarasota Florida. Since we needed local PAs, I hired a good portion of the students from the Ringling College of Art and Design.

I was amazed to hear that they had two M-Xed Red cameras, a full set of Red Pro Primes and at least one Red Rocket editing station.

If they made it work, I'm sure you can. They could have some ideas for you.

If you would like me to put you in touch with the head of their film program, I would be more than happy to do so. :smiley:
 
Reminds me of the old saying-

Good, cheap and fast. You can only have two.

Persistence pays off and your students will be that much better for it.
 
I'm a little bit concerned here, because I'd like to get a quote when I'll purchase my RED cam from RED Europe : I need to know the total price (including shipping fees) before ordering.

So it won't be possible ?
 
As a professor, Jim is obviously trapped between two bureaucracies. I can appreciate his frustration as the powerless middleman. Both the school and Red have very reasonable policies, I'm sure, but the burden of reconciling those differences falls on the shoulders of an overstretched faculty. I hope everyone can cut Jim some slack. He obviously wants the best for his students. He needs a solution to a difficult problem that no one at his institution seems to have the capacity to adapt to. And in fairness, a private sector entity doesn't always play well with government.
 
Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig said:
I'm a little bit concerned here, because I'd like to get a quote when I'll purchase my RED cam from RED Europe : I need to know the total price (including shipping fees) before ordering.

So it won't be possible ?
Click to expand...

Red can certainly provide you with a quote before purchasing. That is not an issue at all.

Thanks,
Kelly
 
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