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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Determining ISO...

Some sort of LUT and Image Analysis Tool for Red would be a bonus.
The Iridas Speedgarde On Set comes to mind.Works well on the D20
(in 1080p) and SI2K (RAW)
You can fiddle about with LUT's, there's a Vector & Histo, looks can be sent
too your editor/colorist or even feed back to the camera (SI2K) It's also cheap ($500) and laptopable.
Maybe Jim has one of these guys in the wings for build 15.
Mezmo
 
Jannard said:
You guys are all going to have to redo your tests after we release Build 15.

Jim
Click to expand...

Now that is funny! :) :)

David Mullen ASC said:
I might add excessively deep focus with 1/3" sensor cameras -- though deep focus and 4x3 could also describe "Citizen Kane"!

I'd also add excessive clipping. Motion smearing from turning off the shutter in 24P.
Click to expand...

I knew I forgot something. Thank you David. This is probably the biggest one!
 
Jannard said:
You guys are all going to have to redo your tests after we release Build 15.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hello Jim... When can I plan my filmout test?:)

I think build 15 will be available end of march...(as build 14 should have gone public 1rst of february I plan some minor delay):biggrin:

1rst of April is ok?

See you.

Pat
 
April 1st should be good for Build 15. No guarantees as usual...

Jim
 
Jannard said:
April 1st should be good for Build 15. No guarantees as usual...

Jim
Click to expand...

Whoa, I thought we were headed towards March 1st. Are you now aiming towards April 1st or simply stating the obvious that slipping from your first date of March 1st is a continuing possibility?
 
April 1st is not April Fools' Day for releasing Build.15.

It is about 10 days before NAB starts.

April 11 - 17, 2008 • Las Vegas The NAB.

Jim and the RED Team want to be sure that everything work OK and is still enough time for the last tweak before NAB.

For sure that Build. 15 should be one of the RED's flagship achievement for the show in Las Vegas.

Scarlet should be the gadget for a sweet little girl like a Scarlett Johansson :love: .
 
April 1st? It's fine.

I'm so happy with the Build 13 that I "don't need" to hurry up anyone.

Btw, before the end of march would be better...

:innocent:
 
You guys are all going to have to redo your tests after we release Build 15.

Jim

No problem with that, actualy i am working in making a big comparison test betwen diferent cameras around mid march, but i seems it will be with build 14th not with 15th to bad ...
I guess i will have to do a separate one with the red in mid april
Jon
 
Jannard said:
You guys are all going to have to redo your tests after we release Build 15.

Jim
Click to expand...

%$!!!*&%

I knew it...just spent the day doing latitude/dynamic range tests...we were joking that we will have to do it all over again after the new builds come out!

Dylan Macleod, CSC
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
mezmo said:
Some sort of LUT and Image Analysis Tool for Red would be a bonus.
The Iridas Speedgarde On Set comes to mind.Works well on the D20
(in 1080p) and SI2K (RAW)
You can fiddle about with LUT's, there's a Vector & Histo, looks can be sent
too your editor/colorist or even feed back to the camera (SI2K) It's also cheap ($500) and laptopable.
Maybe Jim has one of these guys in the wings for build 15.
Mezmo
Click to expand...

I think this has got to happen. (Please guys!)

I taught myself a new way to "monitor" exposure off the monitor today. False color mode. The Histogram and wave form are too tiny to be meaningful. False color ended up being the most effective measure of when highlights were going to go. I did grumble a bit at having to learn yet another way to monitor exposure...feels like re-inventing the wheel

I may just go back to calling it a 320ASA "filmstock" and ignoring the monitor for this and rely on my light meter when I need to. May be more effective.

Some more basic tools in REDCINE would be very useful as well. Like a waveform. Found the histogram, but couldn't find the waveform.

It would also be useful to be able to "float" your cursor over certain areas to "measure" where they sit on the histogram or waveform (if there was one!).

I found it very difficult to judge what we had shot in REDCINE and determine where all the chips of the gray scale were landing.

Basic feeling was...out of the camera...is you can go about 2 and a 1/3 stops over and about two stops under before you get in to trouble. Sure, you could do correction, noise reduction, etc and probably extend this a bit.

Dynamic range, out of the camera (without processing with curves) felt like about 10 stops.

Will have to scrutinize further, but this is the brief synopsis from our day.

Love this camera!

Dylan Macleod, CSC
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
dmacleod said:
I think this has got to happen. (Please guys!)

I taught myself a new way to "monitor" exposure off the monitor today. False color mode. The Histogram and wave form are too tiny to be meaningful. False color ended up being the most effective measure of when highlights were going to go. I did grumble a bit at having to learn yet another way to monitor exposure...feels like re-inventing the wheel

I may just go back to calling it a 320ASA "filmstock" and ignoring the monitor for this and rely on my light meter when I need to. May be more effective.

Some more basic tools in REDCINE would be very useful as well. Like a waveform. Found the histogram, but couldn't find the waveform.

It would also be useful to be able to "float" your cursor over certain areas to "measure" where they sit on the histogram or waveform (if there was one!).

I found it very difficult to judge what we had shot in REDCINE and determine where all the chips of the gray scale were landing.

Basic feeling was...out of the camera...is you can go about 2 and a 1/3 stops over and about two stops under before you get in to trouble. Sure, you could do correction, noise reduction, etc and probably extend this a bit.

Dynamic range, out of the camera (without processing with curves) felt like about 10 stops.

Will have to scrutinize further, but this is the brief synopsis from our day.

Love this camera!

Dylan Macleod, CSC
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
Click to expand...

False colour definitely rocks...believe in it!! It works for Predator :wink:

For monitoring certain parts of the frame isn't there a spot meter feature that monitors the centre of the frame like the P2 cameras do (the size of the box can be adjusted too which is handy - this all conjecture for us since we still don't have the EVF and haven't ordered the LCD)?

Our tests didn't exhibit 11+ stops of latitude but that may come with Build 14? Looking forward to it...when is that again? :innocent:
 
davecw said:
Our tests didn't exhibit 11+ stops of latitude but that may come with Build 14?
Click to expand...

I found the red to be about 9 stops. What number did you come to conclude?
 
There are a million ways to measure latitude. If a Stouffer isn't used, I'm curious how one could possibly put a number out that was reliable.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
There are a million ways to measure latitude. If a Stouffer isn't used, I'm curious how one could possibly put a number out that was reliable.
Click to expand...

We (on Dylan's test) were using a new chart from DSC Labs that has 13 one-stop gradations and an impressive system of mirrors and diffusion to light it evenly.
 
Jannard said:
There are a million ways to measure latitude. If a Stouffer isn't used, I'm curious how one could possibly put a number out that was reliable.

Jim
Click to expand...
Light an scene with items in outdoor direct sunlight, items light in shade and items in extreme dark/shade. From there spot meter them to try and get a range of 14 or more stops between the darkest and brightest item. Shoot it with a red a still DSLR and what ever other camera you would like to. Then look at the footage. Personally I don't see much use in what can be found by shooting a stouffer test as I am never hired by a client to shoot a stouffer test. Real life lattitude tests tell much more. Kodak does this kind of test all the time click on the link below and you will see an example of this kind of test.


http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/negative/data5219.jhtml
 
And how are you measuring the noise threshold? How much noise is acceptable? A test like the Kodak test seems much less scientific a test than a calibrated chart. Is that mixed light? Same color temperature throughout the scene? Or almost the same... How accurate is the spot meter? Are between stop measurements available? Building an accurate plot from this test would be impossible.

The DSC Labs test is a great one. I should have said Stouffer-like which includes several calibrated charts available. But even with these tests, someone needs to determine the amount of acceptable noise which is very subjective.

Jim
 
toronto testing part II

toronto testing part II

Thanks Dylan and Brent for testing today. The DSC Labs chart is called a 72dB Optical Signal Generator and was mounted on an Ambi Illuminator. We shot Stouffer's on Monday Jim. Actually I reshot the Stouffers with the Ambi Illuminator because it was more perfectly back-lit right out of the box then what I could do with all the lights, frames, nets and stands at my disposal.

The main difference is how to analyse the chart to decide on dynamic range. Imatest sees more then what my eyes see on a display, waveform or histogram.
 
Jannard said:
And how are you measuring the noise threshold? How much noise is acceptable? A test like the Kodak test seems like the least scientific test possible. Is that mixed light? Same color temperature throughout the scene? How accurate is the spot meter?

The DSC Labs test is a great one. I should have said Stouffer-like which includes several calibrated charts available.

Jim
Click to expand...

I don't think the Kodak example is very scientific either. But it's prettier to look at then a grey scale!:)
 
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