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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Democracy or Benevolent Dictatorship...

donatello said:
i guess this all depends on where you are sitting ?
i see you joined on 4/15/2008 ...
many have been here for a much longer time ...
over the past 2 1/2 years many have met JJ & many on the Red team we know by name so for many it's more a community ..
so far everybody that i've meant at Red i would invite over my house along with many here on Reduser ...
i like to think that we are guest sitting around having Tea/Coffee discussing camera's etc in a normal tone of voice exchanging idea's ...
i recommend a little fresh air and some honey tea if you find many think of RED as more then just a camera ...
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Nicely put, Donatello. It seems many on this board feel Red OWES them something. I look at Scarlet as a GIFT from Red. It's a beautiful piece of hardware I can't wait to get my hands on. I feel the Scarlet reveal was soured by so many people crapping all over it. A civil discussion of the pro's and con's of the design I'm sure is welcomed by Red. Screaming that Red are a bunch of fools for not including feature X is not. No wonder Jim decided to take a break from the boards. Who can blame him?

Sorry this post isn't very well written. My brain isn't working today :wacko:
 
Boz said:
Nicely put, Donatello. It seems many on this board feel Red OWES them something. I look at Scarlet as a GIFT from Red.
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Both of those sentiments are absurd. It is neither "owed" nor a "gift". It's an inexpensive little f*cking camera that has as many groundbreaking advantages as it has limitations. it doesn't require you to be spiteful or grateful, just a paying customer. all this noise with people "picking a side" serves little to no purpose as far as i can tell. the posts that are overly critical with unrealistic expectations are just as useless as those from the kool-aid drinking indoctrinated. neither has the effect of pushing things forward toward any kind of meaningful conclusion.

am i wrong?
 
Zak Forsman said:
Both of those sentiments are absurd. It is neither "owed" nor a "gift". It's an inexpensive little f*cking camera that has as many groundbreaking advantages as it has limitations. it doesn't require you to be spiteful or grateful, just a paying customer. all this noise with people "picking a side" serves little to no purpose as far as i can tell. the posts that are overly critical with unrealistic expectations are just as useless as those from the kool-aid drinking indoctrinated. neither has the effect of pushing things forward toward any kind of meaningful conclusion.

am i wrong?
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No, you are perfectly right. But I have to say that the people defending Red seem a lot more intolerant than people making wish lists. It's like if you say (politely) that you would like to see some modifications to the Scarlet people are like "Jim, don't listen to these people bitching". How is that bitching? I'm sure that if Red decided to make the modifications the defenders have been scoffing at (the main one seems to be interchangeable lens) they wouldn't turn round and say "Jim, you screwed up!" They'd be as happy as those making the requests.

Having read the discussions I've read some good responses to the issue of interchangeable lens and in the end I also agree that it's not a big deal. But responses like "Stop bitching, 3k for 3k is amazing" is utterly pointless. That's the real bitching.

And btw, I may have only joined a couple of days ago but I first started reading this forum when orders for the Red One were still being made. I couldn't afford the Red One and hadn't spent much time working in the industry and didn't have anything to say, that's why I didn't join. But I still downloaded some of the first Red footage that was put up on the net (although I don't think it was at this forum).

Already then I noticed that many people on this forum were acting more like cheerleaders than dispassioned professionals. But to each his own.
 
dvazp said:
No, you are perfectly right. But I have to say that the people defending Red seem a lot more intolerant than people making wish lists. It's like if you say (politely) that you would like to see some modifications to the Scarlet people are like "Jim, don't listen to these people bitching". How is that bitching? I'm sure that if Red decided to make the modifications the defenders have been scoffing at (the main one seems to be interchangeable lens) they wouldn't turn round and say "Jim, you screwed up!" They'd be as happy as those making the requests.

Having read the discussions I've read some good responses to the issue of interchangeable lens and in the end I also agree that it's not a big deal. But responses like "Stop bitching, 3k for 3k is amazing" is utterly pointless. That's the real bitching.

And btw, I may have only joined a couple of days ago but I first started reading this forum when orders for the Red One were still being made. I couldn't afford the Red One and hadn't spent much time working in the industry and didn't have anything to say, that's why I didn't join. But I still downloaded some of the first Red footage that was put up on the net (although I don't think it was at this forum).

Already then I noticed that many people on this forum were acting more like cheerleaders than dispassioned professionals. But to each his own.
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I totally agree. These folks started bantering with me, as well as a few others, was it yesterday..... or the day before? Anyways, it soon became exhausting, so I stopped replying back to them. I have at last conceded that I was going a little overboard about absolutely needing an interchangeable lens, since I think never-the-less, if you were to put at least more than 7 grand more in adapters, ect..., it will be still great as it beats anything out there. I was wrong to think that this was an upscaled prosumer offering. But at least what I was saying was saying something. A lot of these guys aren't saying jack except for kissing ass and absolutely having nothing much intelligent to say about the project. It's like the Scarlet is a status symbol to them, at least that's what I get from the jibber jabble being demonstrated. Even a few of the culprits user pics, I've grown annoyed, just looking at... like viewing something hideous like a piece of fresh dog poop you just accidently stepped on.
 
Zak Forsman said:
Both of those sentiments are absurd. It is neither "owed" nor a "gift". It's an inexpensive little f*cking camera that has as many groundbreaking advantages as it has limitations. it doesn't require you to be spiteful or grateful, just a paying customer. all this noise with people "picking a side" serves little to no purpose as far as i can tell. the posts that are overly critical with unrealistic expectations are just as useless as those from the kool-aid drinking indoctrinated. neither has the effect of pushing things forward toward any kind of meaningful conclusion.

am i wrong?
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My opinion and views are my own and are every bit as valid as yours. If you want to look at Scarlet as "inexpensive little f*cking camera" so be it. I look at is as a gift to filmmakers who want to achieve a great look on limited budget. I think it is a cool piece of gear. It didn't have to be designed, it didn't have to be priced so low, but I believe that was for those of us who can't afford a Red One. To that end I consider such a design a 'gift' to those of use who are not so financially well off. It's not drinking kool-aid, it's just a different way of looking at it.
 
Scarlet

Scarlet

dhazelrig said:
Didn't they forget to put a witness mark on the Red when it was first introduced?

Don't jump on me, I'm really only being funny and pointing out it never hurts to mention. Everybody forgets something now and again.
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Fair comment - yes we did forget that. Of course we welcome comments, but those do kind of fall into two groups - "are you going to have X or Y, or it would nice if we could add this" i.e refining the concept - that's valid.

Or - "this is stupid" "they can't possibly understand that a camera can't be sold without ... "

Lets keep the discussion to the former? The direction of the camera is set, it is an integrated zoom lens, period.
 
Boz said:
My opinion and views are my own and are every bit as valid as yours. If you want to look at Scarlet as "inexpensive little f*cking camera" so be it. I look at is as a gift to filmmakers who want to achieve a great look on limited budget. I think it is a cool piece of gear. It didn't have to be designed, it didn't have to be priced so low, but I believe that was for those of us who can't afford a Red One. To that end I consider such a design a 'gift' to those of use who are not so financially well off. It's not drinking kool-aid, it's just a different way of looking at it.
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Did you miss his point entirely. He wasn't calling the camera a piece of shit. He agrees that it will achieve a great look. He also knows there are limitations to this camera when compared to a fully equipped Red One. The Red Team knows this. Everyone knows this. Every post that I read from you among others only says, "this is a gift." I agree. I just don't see the point in my sixty some posts to say the same thing: "this is a gift." It gets redundant. I'm gonna start calling names in this fashion since common sense isn't winning here, and I want to hear some facts and not as many.....let me stop there. I'll be like a REDUSER's Boba Fett if I have to.
 
Boz said:
My opinion and views are my own and are every bit as valid as yours. If you want to look at Scarlet as "inexpensive little f*cking camera" so be it. I look at is as a gift to filmmakers who want to achieve a great look on limited budget. I think it is a cool piece of gear. It didn't have to be designed, it didn't have to be priced so low, but I believe that was for those of us who can't afford a Red One. To that end I consider such a design a 'gift' to those of use who are not so financially well off. It's not drinking kool-aid, it's just a different way of looking at it.
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haha! i have such a foul mouth. please excuse me.

a "gift" carries the connotation that the giver is making some kind of sacrifice, in other words, not expecting a return. and that is the only reason your assertion strikes me as hyperbole, no different than the detractors dwelling on the other end of the spectrum. my post was just an attempt to illustrate that the truth lies somewhere in between. it is neither gift nor owed to anyone. it just is.

as for my own stance, I have very high hopes for Scarlet. I've been waiting for "the camera that John Cassavetes would have used" if he were still alive today. And I think this is it. i'm so excited I'm starting my own online independent community resource for its users -- filmmakers and soccer moms alike. but mostly film makers.
 
supergrafx said:
Did you miss his point entirely. He wasn't calling the camera a piece of shit. He agrees that it will achieve a great look. He also knows there are limitations to this camera when compared to a fully equipped Red One. The Red Team knows this. Everyone knows this. Every post that I read from you among others only says, "this is a gift." I agree. I just don't see the point in my sixty some posts to say the same thing: "this is a gift." It gets redundant. I'm gonna start calling names in this fashion since common sense isn't winning here, and I want to hear some facts and not as many.....let me stop there. I'll be like a REDUSER's Boba Fett if I have to.
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Hmm... where exactly in my post did I say he called Scarlet a piece of shit? I literally quoted what he said it was. In fact, I even agree with it. It IS and inexpensive little camera. I'm just saying that because I view it as a gift, doesn't make me wrong. It's just my point of view. And sorry if I've repeated this in multiple threads, but there were literally dozens of threads flying fast and furious on Scarlet day. I will try to refrain from using the 'gift' analogy in the future since it apparently agitates some people.
 
Boz said:
Hmm... where exactly in my post did I say he called Scarlet a piece of shit? I literally quoted what he said it was. In fact, I even agree with it. It IS and inexpensive little camera. I'm just saying that because I view it as a gift, doesn't make me wrong. It's just my point of view. And sorry if I've repeated this in multiple threads, but there were literally dozens of threads flying fast and furious on Scarlet day. I will try to refrain from using the 'gift' analogy in the future since it apparently agitates some people.
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thank you
 
Jim,
For those of us who will "vote" with the wallets and buy your product. What is the best case and worst case time line to delivery of Scarlet?
Like many folks my needs will be more than met with what has been announced for Scarlet. I don't really want to buy an interim HD camera and would appreciate any info.
Thanks
 
Jim took a sabbatical from these forums, he announced couple of days ago. We all have to wait for answers when they become officially available from Team Red.
 
opinions are like assholes, everybody has one...
 
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