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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Democracy or Benevolent Dictatorship...

I am going to get a scarlet because I think it is the everyman's camera at its price point and feature set. There is nothing out there even close to it, and more than anything it will get Panasonic and Sony to make some leaps and bounds in this field. If it wasn't for Red, Sony and Panasonic would be content with 720 and 1080 for another 10 years. Now they have to work at it and also have to make it afordable. For that I am glad.
 
also

also

If this camera is 3k for $3k imagine how inexpensive it will be to rent at the rental houses! if an HVX-200 rents for $250 a day and its a $5,100 camera, I would imagine the Scarlet would be around $250/day as well.


Nice

More opportunities for amazing films to be made. Also more opportunities for crappy indie films that lack story to be told. At least with prettier pictures.
 
HD Bubaloo said:
If this camera is 3k for $3k imagine how inexpensive it will be to rent at the rental houses! if an HVX-200 rents for $250 a day and its a $5,100 camera, I would imagine the Scarlet would be around $250/day as well.


Nice

More opportunities for amazing films to be made. Also more opportunities for crappy indie films that lack story to be told. At least with prettier pictures.
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Nobody will rent it cause everybody's gonna have 3. :)
 
I respect everyone here.

But I am just being realistic. And the hundreds of thousands of people you talk of, I doubt Red will be able to make so many of them.

And you can't afford a $8,000 camera. I can't afford a $17,500 camera. I would buy a RED One immidiately when I had the money. I don't have the money. We are in the same boat. Only I might have a slighlty higher budget. Why should we be blaming each other? That's the problem on these boards. The people who can afford the $3,000, but not much more, are afraid that things are changed and they cannot afford it anymore. And therefore, they are flaming everyone that asks for a little bit more. The Scarlet won't change, don't be afraid, it will stay under $3,000.
 
Finally. I've been waiting for Jim's definitive response to the Scarlet madness that happened on day one. It was completely out of control. I know I personally took several hits on this forum for defending Scarlet from several RedUser "vets", who honestly should know better. Mature comments such as "f*cking noob" do nothing to advance the discussion, and only exacerbate the situation.

I'm thrilled Jim has put his foot down and said enough is enough. Now maybe we can get back to the discussion at hand - user input to help Red "tweak" Scarlet to make it the best it can be. NOT redo it. NOT add 3 more models to make everyone happy. NOT raise the price to nearly double to accommodate those who want to make Scarlet another Red One.

I am thrilled with Scarlet's features and price point. I look forward to hearing more detailed news on features and capabilities as Scarlet development continues. I hope to contribute positively to make it the best product it can be... all the while saving my pennies and counting down to launch date.
 
Agree with Boz. Keep the current specs and make it happen.

As posted in another thread: Different datarate options would be nice.
 
Boz, as you probably know I agree with you 100%, and I've been sitting here wondering why emotions run so high and why this curious level of resentment.

I think I have it figured out.

I think RED is the first camera system in history that has felt truly personal. Jim Jannard didn't build it because he wanted to make money. He built it because he wanted a camera.

Think about that for a while. This guy is not building cameras for us, although he loves all of us when we're not throwing dishes at him. This guy is building cameras for HIMSELF.

But I think that means he breaks a few hearts because people almost think that he's building cameras for them, because you can see how passionate he is about building cameras. Here's someone building cameras for the joy of building cameras, and he didn't pick MY needs? SOB!

So he says, not "I need to build an interchangeable lens camera for $10,000 so the Little People can afford it", but "Hey, what camera would I like next?" And he says, well, something I can put in my pocket or hang around my neck and take anywhere.

I have a Canon XL1. Every once in a while when I bought it, I used the neck strap to hang it around my neck like a giant DSLR. It felt kinda like having a pet cat on a carrier. The rest of the world thought I looked like an idiot with too much money to burn.

He doesn't want to make us a new pet cat camera. Canon still makes a few of those. He wants to make something that we can carry and enjoy, and I'm amazed that people don't just understand that when you add interchangeable lenses, you add weight and immense design expense. So from the beginning it was clear that he would use a fixed lens, because that makes it easy to hold and carry: A "pocket" camera.

So degrading the camera to 2K and putting on interchangeable lenses would be of no interest to him, because he's an image quality fanatic. Image quality fanatics don't shrink their sensors for a camera which would have a very similar form factor to RED ONE. He'd keep his 4K sensor for that camera and it would wind up being a slight variation of the RED ONE, competing directly with it!

In short, the critics are focusing on the price point and trying to build a camera. Not how Jim operates. He fixates on the camera with a laser-like focus and then figures out how cheaply he can sell it and still make a few bucks to keep his plane up in the air.

I hope this little glimpse at how Jim works will help people understand, and resent less, why he doesn't produce a camera for their needs, even though there is obviously a genuine market for it. It would not serve Jim and so he would not put his heart and soul into it.

And when he puts his heart and soul into something, the results are truly magical.

Let's not try to make him into Sony, please? I appreciate Jim as he is. I'm sure he knows there are plenty of people who agree.

But then again, he did make "my" camera and its name is Scarlet.

D
 
Great point Dennis. Red has emphasized the word pocket from the beginning and after reading your post it makes a little more sense why they chose that word.
 
I would imagine that the designers, engineers and everybody involved in the Scarlet project know a bit about putting a camera together and that is why I am sure they won’t forget any buttons, focusing rings and other pertinent things necessary to operate it. Wouldn’t you think so?
All manufacturers listen to customer’s feedback of course, but all of them follow a process using focus groups, marketing surveys and mostly working with professionals in their market to test and help develop their products. That was what Red did with their first Red Ones and I am sure that is what they are planning for Scarlet. These beta testers are not the people going berserk screaming in this forums for all sorts of changes on a camera that as it stands now seems to be a magnificent and promising tool, especially for the amazing price. These are much respected individuals that really know what they are doing and are the leading professionals, not hysterical wannabes.
Scarlet promises to be an astounding tool developed and nurtured by a very intelligent and successful businessman that knows a thing or two about bringing fine products to market. He is the BOSS and he will undoubtedly listen to people that make sense and understand what is possible or not. But apparently there are not many of those around these days.
 
2poprob said:
"I believe that the moment is near when by a procedure of active paranoiac thought, it will be possible to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality." Salvador Dali

diskojerk, we can go on like this for months.

http://www.wisdomquotes.com

"We all know your never going to dance."
2poprob
Click to expand...

I will go on for months... And months... And months...
 
John Caballero said:
I would imagine that the designers, engineers and everybody involved in the Scarlet project know a bit about putting a camera together and that is why I am sure they won’t forget any buttons, focusing rings and other pertinent things necessary to operate it. Wouldn’t you think so?
All manufacturers listen to customer’s feedback of course, but all of them follow a process using focus groups, marketing surveys and mostly working with professionals in their market to test and help develop their products. That was what Red did with their first Red Ones and I am sure that is what they are planning for Scarlet. These beta testers are not the people going berserk screaming in this forums for all sorts of changes on a camera that as it stands now seems to be a magnificent and promising tool, especially for the amazing price. These are much respected individuals that really know what they are doing and are the leading professionals, not hysterical wannabes.
Scarlet promises to be an astounding tool developed and nurtured by a very intelligent and successful businessman that knows a thing or two about bringing fine products to market. He is the BOSS and he will undoubtedly listen to people that make sense and understand what is possible or not. But apparently there are not many of those around these days.
Click to expand...

Didn't they forget to put a witness mark on the Red when it was first introduced?

Don't jump on me, I'm really only being funny and pointing out it never hurts to mention. Everybody forgets something now and again.
 
I think the main thing people are neglecting to recognize is that the scarlet is still in the ground stages. After speaking with some people at the red booth, it was very clear to me what they had in mind when concieving and designing the camera. The people at Red seemed to very willing to listen to peoples ideas and comments about many different subjects. Some comments recieved a polite nod and others recieved a "good point, you should run that by so and so". Its not unreasonable to voice you're opinion about the features you would like to see on a camera during its design stage, but it is best to have an informed opinion that is well concieved if you wish to have your comment taken seriously.
 
diskojerk said:
I think the main thing people are neglecting to recognize is that the scarlet is still in the ground stages. After speaking with some people at the red booth, it was very clear to me what they had in mind when concieving and designing the camera. The people at Red seemed to very willing to listen to peoples ideas and comments about many different subjects. Some comments recieved a polite nod and others recieved a "good point, you should run that by so and so". Its not unreasonable to voice you're opinion about the features you would like to see on a camera during its design stage, but it is best to have an informed opinion that is well concieved if you wish to have your comment taken seriously.
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Here, here!!

-D
 
You know what makes me sick? People who feel that they have to fawn over Jim, gushing with love and admiration, and defend Red as if it was their own daughter. We're talking about cameras for crying out loud!

And what type of defenses of the Scarlet do we get? "You shouldn't be thinking about your needs when talking about the Scarlet" "Just be grateful that they're making the Scarlet for you" "Without Jim you wouldn't have anything" "How dare you criticize a camera I want to buy?"

You dumb nuts, we know Red are groundbreaking. That's why we're here on the forum. Does that mean we don't have the right to make comments, suggestions to improve the camera, maybe even criticisms? We know Jim can choose to take our suggestions on board or ignore them. Then, when the camera is released, we can choose to buy the camera or not buy it. Why is it a problem? Why do people feel that they have to defend Jim and Red? It's his company, he's making money from you, and he's not paying you for kissing his ass. So can you just stop it? It's like some unhealthy sexual obsession.

I personally would like to see good manual controls on the lens barrel of the Scarlet and the possibility of lens adapters. I don't think any of these suggestions would push the price up but I could be wrong. Is it WRONG for me to say that? Is it breaking some type of moral code? Would it shatter your dreams if some critics' suggestions were taken on board?

Btw, before everyone gets excited and talks about buying 3, 4 or 5 Scarlets, it may be worth it to wait another year and see if they release something even more interesting. I was keeping an eye on the Red One till I found out about the price. Now I'm keeping an eye on the Scarlet till I found out about the specs. If the Scarlet isn't what I need I don't mind waiting another couple of years for something more suited to my needs rather than BUY BUY BUY based on a whim to want the latest gadget! Once again, is it a CRIME to say that?

I just feel if you want to make a good film you don't need that much equipment. What you need is a good story. I recently saw a film called 'This World of Ours' made by a 19-year old Japanese kid for something like $10000. It was an amazingly powerful film and he spent less on the whole film than most of us spend just on a camera and editing suite. It shows what type of vision we need. Btw, download the film and be amazed (http://peijafilm.nightfall.jp/). The director wants to give it as much free distribution as possible.
 
dvazp said:
Btw, before everyone gets excited and talks about buying 3, 4 or 5 Scarlets, it may be worth it to wait another year and see if they release something even more interesting.
Click to expand...


If everyone thought that way, there would be no next release.
 
Jannard said:
Sorry... dictatorship is winning big here.

We will listen very carefully, but this is not a "vote for options" program.

If you want that, start your own company.

Jim
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hey Jim, those whiners dont represent the majority of the indies, if they choose to bitch then let them be, and let them buy that expensive HDV long GOP format at three times the price and five times less quality. The majority is happy with this camera and we trust your judgement as you know where the market is
 
You dumb nuts, we know Red are groundbreaking. That's why we're here on the forum. Does that mean we don't have the right to make comments, suggestions to improve the camera, maybe even criticisms?
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Sure, but conversely, don't some of us have the same right to say there is already so much freaking incredible stuff packed into this $3,000 camera that how in the flyin' flippin' world can you complain about a 3K RAW camera that blows the specs off cameras well over twice and three times the price? Instead of being "wow, this is awesome", so many are, "missed the boat on this one"... "should've had blah blah blah and it would've been great". Pffft. Sorry, but pfffft. I think some of us have a right to defend the camera too because frankly it's a little machine with no peer within 100 yards of this price range. That's all.
 
"You know what makes me sick? People who feel that they have to fawn over Jim, gushing with love and admiration, and defend Red as if it was their own daughter. We're talking about cameras for crying out loud!"

i guess this all depends on where you are sitting ?
i see you joined on 4/15/2008 ...
many have been here for a much longer time ...
over the past 2 1/2 years many have met JJ & many on the Red team we know by name so for many it's more a community ..
so far everybody that i've meant at Red i would invite over my house along with many here on Reduser ...
i like to think that we are guest sitting around having Tea/Coffee discussing camera's etc in a normal tone of voice exchanging idea's ...
i recommend a little fresh air and some honey tea if you find many think of RED as more then just a camera ...
 
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