Deleted thread cut off potentially helpful info

[Michael Epple]

There was a thread about Alexa and it's prores output taking potential red jobs that got deleted. In the thread I was talking about issues I had with being able to set looks in camera that accurately represented what I did with Redcine X, most specifically the lack of the ability to move the black point to the right on the curve. I have multiple looks that clip the blacks more sharply than can be done by bending down the lower part of the curve or essentially lowering the lift. It is very helpful to me to be able to simulate this sharp clip in camera so I can more accurately and quickly expose and light for my blacks. Stuart had said something about lowering the FLUT into the negative as an option, but I did not see his response to my followup. Can lowering the FLUT in essence do the same as pulling the black point to the right or is it more like lowering the lift? Also, is Red working on giving us more options to adjust the look in camera: for example, RGB curves, or RGB lift, gamma, gain adjustments? For the moment, I would be happy with being able to adjust the black point of the curve completely.

 

[Jannard]

I would be happy with being able to adjust the black point of the curve completely.

There are a few ways to move the black point...

Shadow control
Lift
Move lower right corner of curves.

Lowering FLUT does a more complicated change...

Jim

 

[Michael Epple]

Thanks Jim, although I believe lift and shadow are only an option in post. I'm looking for an in-camera solution to replicate my post looks. It seemed to me that being able to move the black point to the right in curves (in camera) would be the easiest option since they are already in the in-camera menu. I might be wrong though as I am not a software developer.

 

[Bob Gruen]

Which camera build are you on? In 30+ you can do the changes that Jim outlined.

But beyond that you should be able to go to Video -> Tone and define a simple curve that clips the blacks to the point you want. (FLUT is right next to it) Just set up the curve in one of the Red software packages and punch the numbers into the camera.

I'd never do this BTW. My take on it is to leave everything at neutral and set all of the levels as to how the internal Red tools tell me they should be. If I had a client on an external monitor I might show them a look file, but I wouldn't shoot that way.

But that's just me...

Bob

 

[CJ Roy]

I think there's a lot of value in being able to dial in a look on camera. There's a lengthy debate about that somewhere here on the forum.

The issue is is that the image doesn't look the same once ingested, as it did on the monitors. On-set the image has much more contrast and doesn't represent the the more correct image, which is a little flatter.

 

[Jannard]

Sorry... read it wrong.

Build your look in R-X (including Shadow or Curve) and save as a LUT, load to camera.

Jim

 

[Michael Epple]

I do save the curve but for some reason, in-camera I cannot adjust the X value of the toe or black level point. In redcine X I drag the toe point or black point to the right, crushing the blacks and the X value increases. I cannot go into the camera menu and increase the X value of the toe and any saved curves from redcine transfer all but the X value of the black point (shadows, toe, whatever you call it).

 

[Michael Epple]

Any final word about black point adjustment I stated above, specifically pertaining to curves?