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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

December 1st Dragon Sensor upgrade price increase reminder

Nick Morrison said:
Fingers crossed we hear news about future of MX line too, and if any possible price adjustments there also!

I'm personally a HUGE FAN of the MX line, and hope RED continues to support and invest in it...as a succestful "primer/intro" into the RED ecosystem, whether at the Scarlet or Epic "level".
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the red one got dropped wholesale. support , parts, and accessories are not really there.

its a sad reality of the global markets. there is no craft in production. everything has a designated shelf life

we are still buying bubble blowers, and you don't fix bubble blowers, or offer long term support.. they are themselves just bubbles.. welcome to the pay as you go future of disposable products ..

you want a car body that doesn't rust? ..carbon fibre maybe? .. ok.. here's your aluminium car ..have a nice day!

if anybody seriously wants to buy an epic mx kit, with ronford baker tripod, and a set of zeiss primes please message me
 
Nick Morrison said:
Right. And the economies of scale are shrinking. RED already had a massive volume of upgrades. And now the upgrades are slowing down to a trickle. Smaller scale.

I understand you're frustrated, but I'm not sure questioning RED's intentions are going to get you what you want.
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actually, yes, questioning red can get you what you want

it may be that i "want out" , questioning red will help me decide

read my last post

ive been a loyal, but not always happy customer from the first days of red one.. so i think i have the right to question?
 
egon touste said:
the red one got dropped wholesale. support , parts, and accessories are not really there. ... there is no craft in production.
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We released the RED ONE over 7 years ago. There are still a boat load in service. And, we still support the RED ONE, don't know where that misconception comes from. Sure, a lot of firmware features are not retrogradable due to hardware constraints. But we are still fielding and answering support tickets. We are still selling accessories. We are still repairing.

But, like I said in another thread today. I respect and welcome any opinion and POV. I only ask that you look at the whole picture. That we don't support the RED ONE is simply not true.

And, Egon, if you think we have no "craft in production", I will personally give you a tour of our manufacturing floor in Irvine. I hope I can change your mind.
 
Brent,

Do I only need to say that you don't have craft in production to be offered a personal tour? :thumbsup: Because I think a tour would be badass!
 
Brent@RED said:
We released the RED ONE over 7 years ago. There are still a boat load in service. And, we still support the RED ONE, don't know where that misconception comes from. Sure, a lot of firmware features are not retrogradable due to hardware constraints. But we are still fielding and answering support tickets. We are still selling accessories. We are still repairing.

But, like I said in another thread today. I respect and welcome any opinion and POV. I only ask that you look at the whole picture. That we don't support the RED ONE is simply not true.

And, Egon, if you think we have no "craft in production", I will personally give you a tour of our manufacturing floor in Irvine. I hope I can change your mind.
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Brent, thankyou for the sincere response.

yes, the red one is there..but not economical to fix. how much for a main processor nowadays, or a broken sensor replacement?

i have noted the ssd readers are back in the store again though..

the fact is our beloved fpga has been killed by its asic brother, and it became obsolete to red before it became obsolete to many users..

as for manufacruring.. do you mean mechanical parts? .. my understanding is, from pictures posted.. its more of an "assembly line" .. yes, assembly is a skill i don't have at all..im good at breaking things.. anyway, id be happy to be wrong.. but i doubt you're manufacturing the chips, boards or sensors?.. is that really what you're doing?

one advantage of the red one is the fact the jpeg2000 headers are left in the stream, whereas the epic seems to have had the header info pulled out (re-inserted on the fly during decode?) .. so from that point of view, the red one still has the archival advantage..

sooner or later another camera company is going to bite the bullet and license chips like these to open up their sensors to higher throughput

http://www.intopix.com/products/index/index/id/34/lang/en#.VGbQfsmOpLc

until then, $9k investments should be made carefully IMO .
 
Brett, haha. Good effort. But I know you better than that.

Egon, my pleasure. Just give me a couple of business day notice when you'd like to stop by. I have a block of aluminum in our machine shop that will wind up as a RED MINI-MAG. It would argue "manufacturing" over "assembly line" :thumbsup:
 
egon touste said:
as for manufacruring.. do you mean mechanical parts? .. my understanding is, from pictures posted.. its more of an "assembly line" .. yes, assembly is a skill i don't have at all..im good at breaking things.. anyway, id be happy to be wrong.. but i doubt you're manufacturing the chips, boards or sensors?.. is that really what you're doing? .
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Yes, in the Dragon we not only assemble it but we also design and manufacture the sensor, we design and manufacture the ASICs ( there are multiple different ASICs in side the Epic ) , as well as design and manufacture the mechanicals and all the boards.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes, in the Dragon we not only assemble it but we also design and manufacture the sensor, we design and manufacture the ASICs ( there are multiple different ASICs in side the Epic ) , as well as design and manufacture the mechanicals and all the boards.
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well that is impressive then. i shall envoke my empathy chip, maybe you are paying the price for not using slave labour

however.. since the majority of epic owners now have a dragon sensor.. and assuming you made a profit on each? ..and possibly a good profit?

i stand by my feelings.. the pricing has gone in the wrong direction, big time sir

ive wondered how i'd get ahead far enough to do the dragon upgrade.. its now looks impossible without taking the extra $3k sting. thanks, not!

problem is , for that money i could be buying another camera

another problem, and i shouted this very loudly at the time.. you created a modular system.. but the module everyone really wants is the DR module.. which is the sensor.. the one unavailable module. yes.. i know, we're getting a dragon sensor upgrade, but beyond dragon?

that way, digital cameras could replace film.. instead of a string of 15 digital cameras doing the work a film camera would have happily done for 30+ years

now that the quality is there, you should consider making an L.T.S (long term support camera) . use a jpeg2000 codec, and be open about it.. and then we can archive our material properly. have a backend that can cope with sensor module updates

just my $20 dollars worth

ps, ive seen all the boards inside an epic, some organisation had photos of each circuit laid out a few years ago, there was a surprisingly large number of them if i remember correctly, and the boards were red i think.. which makes sense ;)

good luck with the new pricing
 
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned previously in the thread (apologies if it has) but this seems like a pretty raw deal for Scarlet MX owners looking to upgrade to the Scarlet Dragon sensor. $12,500 for the upgrade (post Dec 1) or $14,500 for a brand new Scarlet Dragon. Am I missing something here? Seems out of whack to me...
 
I have no problem with the price increase although it does pretty much kill off the upgrade route for Scarlet owners. I bought into the upgrade process and applied for it in April 2013 when it was announced, received nothing until September 15th 2014 to say my camera was ready for upgrade, then a few weeks later sent an Email saying I had until end of November to get the upgrade paid for or the price would increase by 3,000. Even if they had given us a few months notice it would have made a huge difference. November 15th is the end of the Tax year in Ireland so it couldn't have come at a worse time, very disappointing treatment of customers and I cant think of many companies would attempt such a thing.
 
Nikolay Pavlov said:
So is there any information about how much will be the upgrade from Scarlet-MX to EPIC DRAGON after December 1st?
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Wouldnt it be the same plus 3K?

As in 9500 for EPIC and 2100 for DRAGON (straight from Scarlet).
 
Why is it always like this during upgrade/price updates?

Did our current cameras all of a sudden stop working or become obsolete?

I'm very happy with my Scarlet and thankfully there are a few DRAGONs in my area that can be rented (Jeremy Torrie) easily.

I will probably never upgrade since Im still happy with my BT Scarlet.

Ill go back to my corner now :)
 
Correct, any path where you are going from M-X sensor to DRAGON sensor is a $3k increase. Monochrome, SCARLET M-X to EPIC-X DRAGON, included.
 
Brent@RED said:
Correct, any path where you are going from M-X sensor to DRAGON sensor is a $3k increase. Monochrome, SCARLET M-X to EPIC-X DRAGON, included.
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Any chance you'll consider someday allowing us to jump from a color to monochrome sensor? :) :) :)
 
Brendan, that is possible. Just requires paying for a DRAGON monochrome sensor as well as the components that would need replacing to indicate it is a monochrome camera.
 
Brent@RED said:
Brendan, that is possible. Just requires paying for a DRAGON monochrome sensor as well as the components that would need replacing to indicate it is a monochrome camera.
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Hi Brent,

Would it be possible to buy just the Dragon Monochrome sensor (as well as the components that would need replacing to indicate it is a monochrome camera, as you mention) and temporarily replace the color Dragon sensor with the Monochrome Dragon sensor?

For example, if we need to shoot a feature film in Black and White.

And then - for a fee, of course - send the camera back to RED and change it back to the Color Dragon sensor.

If that would be possible, it would be a dream come true, and a true Modular system!
 
Medavoym said:
Hi Brent,

Would it be possible to buy just the Dragon Monochrome sensor (as well as the components that would need replacing to indicate it is a monochrome camera, as you mention) and temporarily replace the color Dragon sensor with the Monochrome Dragon sensor?

For example, if we need to shoot a feature film in Black and White.

And then - for a fee, of course - send the camera back to RED and change it back to the Color Dragon sensor.

If that would be possible, it would be a dream come true, and a true Modular system!
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Oh, that would be pushing it. Frankly, I don't know if it would end up being cost effective for you in the long run given what cost would be to go back and forth each time. My guess is two cameras would be better than one in the long term.
 
Just to confirm Brent; scarlet to epic is $9xxx. And then to dragon that epic is only $3000 more; for a total of $12,000ish?

thanks!
 
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