DEC 10 LENS SHOOTOUT

[Cliff Hokanson]

Thanks guys nice tests. How about next time lock the tripod on a frame then change the lenses. Have you talent look at the same place .

so do all the 18mm or similaur lenses first a sliding screen would be sweet. I like the news paper in the bg. Cheers Cliff

 

[Cliff Hokanson]

Thanks guys nice tests. How about next time lock the tripod on a frame then change the lenses. Have you talent look at the same place .

so do all the 18mm or similar lenses first a sliding screen would be sweet. I like the news paper in the bg. Cheers Cliff

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Gee it all seems to depend what you are looking for. I agree that the Red/Uniq optics looked sterile as well and had a clear preference for the Cooke glass and the Leica glass.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

+1 on this, Shawn, I totally agree that a very "true" look is better than a "style" that I have to fight in post. I don't want a set of lenses that mean everything I shoot favors one side or the other of the emotional universe.

Horses for courses ...

Personally, I'm in the camp that tries to get my image 80% - 90% of the way there in camera, and then do the final finishing in post. I choose lenses all the time based specifically on the look that they give, regardless of the name brand. Shawn has an old zoom that is not great mechanically, but has a very stylized look that I LOVE, and I just can't get in post. Does it fit for every project? Nope. If you are having to fight a look that a lens bring to the image, then you have made the wrong choice IMO. It is all about adding to the story / image not being distracting.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Thanks guys nice tests. How about next time lock the tripod on a frame then change the lenses. Have you talent look at the same place .

so do all the 18mm or similar lenses first a sliding screen would be sweet. I like the news paper in the bg. Cheers Cliff

You are more then welcome to arrange you own test and do that. We arranged this test to be as efficient as possible in order to get done in a decent amount of time with the equipment and crew we had. Running three concurrent tests and all sharing the same sets of lenses is quite a ballet.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Have you tried viewing it in 1080p yourself? I cannot get a 1080p download no matter what I try. And I know what to try.
If scaling is off and HD is on it is 720p. And the download files are 720 as well.

Sorry. ???

Do you have direct links to the 1080p material?

Try going direct to the vimeo page- that is how I have been viewing them, and it works for me. I think the embedding of the video limits it to 720p. So if you are watching the embedded videos that could be the problem. I just triple checked the videos, they are all 1080p, and I can view them that way. I also just clicked the "Force 1080p viewing" option. So maybe that will help with the embedded videos? Sorry for the trouble, I wish I had a clear answer ...

http://vimeo.com/33707458
http://vimeo.com/33663545
http://vimeo.com/33690160

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Horses for courses ...

Personally, I'm in the camp that tries to get my image 80% - 90% of the way there in camera, and then do the final finishing in post. I choose lenses all the time based specifically on the look that they give, regardless of the name brand. Shawn has an old zoom that is not great mechanically, but has a very stylized look that I LOVE, and I just can't get in post. Does it fit for every project? Nope. If you are having to fight a look that a lens bring to the image, then you have made the wrong choice IMO. It is all about adding to the story / image not being distracting.

+1 Totally agree!

For me the biggest most interesting thing about this test was that the Illuminas and the Leicas impart the strongest 'look', all the others, yes including the Panchros, felt within 2% of each other in most circumstances.

 

[Harrison Diamond]

Very interesting test!
I've only made it through the first setup, and I've downloaded the R3Ds for later inspection, but my first blush on some of them:
Panchros- like the look, but it won't fit for everything. T2.8 is a bit of a bummer, as is the odd color shift for the 18mm. wish the iris blades were more rounded stopped down.
Illuminas- Very disappointing. Noticed the color shift stopped down right away, and the performance wide open was lackluster.
leicas- About what I expected.
RPPs- These did about as well or better than I expected but I was a little thrown by the cats-eye bokeh. I'll have to look into it some more, as right now these are leading my cost/benefit analysis.

 

[Zeb B]

This was a cine-lens test... hence there not being photography lenses.

In regards to this test, I had no involvement, but I would offer that if there was to be a baseline, as you suggest, I'd like to see a high-quality baseline. This would be comparing all lenses to an ideal set such as MP's, UP's or S4's. I don't want to have a baseline (to which all is compared) with DSLR lenses. That would be counter-productive, in my opinion. The standard to which we compare these lenses should be a higher set of lenses, not a lower.

Leica R's are cine lenses? Are you aware of a similar test that has been done with an Epic with Canon L glass which would suggest that they are of a lower quality as you state? Would love to see what I, and all the Scarlet users, are missing using the Canon primes.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

The Leica R's are my fault. I asked about throwing them into the mix at the last minute. There seemed to be a lot of interest on the board in them so we felt it would add some value to the test. Given that Matthew Duclos was willing to bring them out himself, how could we resist?

It was a frantic mess moving 40 something lenses between three stations and adding even more would have been logistically impossible. The outdoor testing didn't even make it through every lens because we ran out of daylight.

I can certainly see the value of doing a Still Lens Shootout, perhaps using RPPs as a baseline, but that's going to have to be an entirely separate event.

CB

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Very interesting test!
I've only made it through the first setup, and I've downloaded the R3Ds for later inspection, but my first blush on some of them:
Panchros- like the look, but it won't fit for everything. T2.8 is a bit of a bummer, as is the odd color shift for the 18mm. wish the iris blades were more rounded stopped down.
Illuminas- Very disappointing. Noticed the color shift stopped down right away, and the performance wide open was lackluster.
leicas- About what I expected.
RPPs- These did about as well or better than I expected but I was a little thrown by the cats-eye bokeh. I'll have to look into it some more, as right now these are leading my cost/benefit analysis.

Yep.

That's one of three attributes which I immediately told me set one was Panchro/i's. The 5-set (25-100) is likely one of the most color matched sets I've ever used, however, the 18mm is noticeably warmer. I discovered this by my own Cooke lens test you can find here , if interested. I over-layered the focal lengths onto one image, and you can see it there too. Right-Click and download here. However moderately inconvenient that can sometimes be, it's a pretty sharp and rather distortion free 18mm. So dispite being a color match fanatic, I tend to take the good with the bad on that one. It's a beautiful lens, and I compensate in camera for the color difference since I have well documented it in my tests. I'm excited to see the R3D's and see how the other 18mm's compared, and to see if my stated opinion proves true.

The iris blades is something that just is. You either like it or you don't. I like it more often than not. My preference rarely finds either round or octagonal to be necessary for a story, in regards of being impactful, so it's more of a taste thing. I tend to think it's usually really beautiful, so long as it's not overly distracting, by being huge, but I also think SUPER large round bokeh is overly distracting too. The good news is, the Cooke lenses have round bokeh at T/2.8... so worst case scenario, if you feel the bokeh needs to be round, you can always shoot at a T/2.8, which is a nice stop if you have to be stuck at a stop. Not too open and not too closed. I especially love octagonal bokeh in nature or a park scenes with long lenses. Someplace with trees, flowers, etc in the bg. I think it looks cool. Night interiors can sometimes be distracting, sometimes enchanting. Just depends. I'm getting very sick of DSLR large super round bokeh in your face all the time, so I sometimes find octagonal bokeh a relieving alternative.

I can totally see some people preferring round, and if that is the case, perhaps cooke is not for you. It's simply a preference, and the cooke 8-leaf iris assembly is a flagship characteristic. The Schneiders would be a good option to look at if interested in round bokeh. They have like 18 blades or something crazy... about as round as it comes.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

btw, the Unique Optics looked good, and when you look at the price, they suddenly look great.

 

[Jeffrey T. Morgan]

Horses for courses ...

Personally, I'm in the camp that tries to get my image 80% - 90% of the way there in camera, and then do the final finishing in post. I choose lenses all the time based specifically on the look that they give, regardless of the name brand. Shawn has an old zoom that is not great mechanically, but has a very stylized look that I LOVE, and I just can't get in post. Does it fit for every project? Nope. If you are having to fight a look that a lens bring to the image, then you have made the wrong choice IMO. It is all about adding to the story / image not being distracting.

Ryan.

I think this is a fantastic point that can't be emphasized enough. The other day (in this thread or another) I was talking about a shoot I was on recently that was shot VERY well, but since there was NO post work, it just looks "alright". So every day I respect DP's who say to get most of the way there IN CAMERA. Because you have to watch your own back.

My opinions are ONLY for myself, as a Cinematographer that almost always has control of the Color Correct. And since I want to OWN a set of lenses, I want those lenses to be the most flexible, thus the neutral look works for me best. Neutral, only modest contrast, and great mechanics. That is for me. This doesn't mean I don't have a strong idea of what I am going for in a look, I always do. But I plan where my even image lands knowing where I will twist it in post, lol. But for someone who doesn't get to dictate the post flow, then you want lenses that support the look you are after.

This is the sign of a great test! We all see different things. "Horses for courses" mate!

 

[Jeffrey T. Morgan]

Oh, where are people getting the $20k price for Uniqoptics Signature Series? $20k? Does this include all six lenses? I have contacted Uniqoptics (through there somewhat broken site D-: ) so I will hear what they say!

 

[Martin Stevens]

Try going direct to the vimeo page- that is how I have been viewing them, and it works for me. I think the embedding of the video limits it to 720p. So if you are watching the embedded videos that could be the problem. I just triple checked the videos, they are all 1080p, and I can view them that way. I also just clicked the "Force 1080p viewing" option. So maybe that will help with the embedded videos? Sorry for the trouble, I wish I had a clear answer ...

http://vimeo.com/33707458
http://vimeo.com/33663545
http://vimeo.com/33690160

BINGO! Now it works....THANK YOU!

I love your work Ryan. Classy stuff.

 

[Shane Kelly]

Oh, where are people getting the $20k price for Uniqoptics Signature Series? $20k? Does this include all six lenses? I have contacted Uniqoptics (through there somewhat broken site D-: ) so I will hear what they say!

I think that they are closer to $32k.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Ryan.

I think this is a fantastic point that can't be emphasized enough. The other day (in this thread or another) I was talking about a shoot I was on recently that was shot VERY well, but since there was NO post work, it just looks "alright". So every day I respect DP's who say to get most of the way there IN CAMERA. Because you have to watch your own back.

My opinions are ONLY for myself, as a Cinematographer that almost always has control of the Color Correct. And since I want to OWN a set of lenses, I want those lenses to be the most flexible, thus the neutral look works for me best. Neutral, only modest contrast, and great mechanics. That is for me. This doesn't mean I don't have a strong idea of what I am going for in a look, I always do. But I plan where my even image lands knowing where I will twist it in post, lol. But for someone who doesn't get to dictate the post flow, then you want lenses that support the look you are after.

This is the sign of a great test! We all see different things. "Horses for courses" mate!

Agreed. If you are always doing and overseeing the post end, and you are wanting a neutral base to start with, then that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

BINGO! Now it works....THANK YOU!

I love your work Ryan. Classy stuff.

YEAH! Glad to hear it is working now. And thanks for the complements on my work.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Oh, where are people getting the $20k price for Uniqoptics Signature Series? $20k? Does this include all six lenses? I have contacted Uniqoptics (through there somewhat broken site D-: ) so I will hear what they say!

I think that they are closer to $32k.

Before the site went down, you could put down a 10% deposit to order the lenses. That deposit was $2,000. So I extrapolated from that number that the cost for the set was $20,000. Unfortunately, the site is down now, and I can't pull up that page anymore ...

 

[Zeb B]

The Leica R's are my fault. I asked about throwing them into the mix at the last minute. There seemed to be a lot of interest on the board in them so we felt it would add some value to the test. Given that Matthew Duclos was willing to bring them out himself, how could we resist?

It was a frantic mess moving 40 something lenses between three stations and adding even more would have been logistically impossible. The outdoor testing didn't even make it through every lens because we ran out of daylight.

I can certainly see the value of doing a Still Lens Shootout, perhaps using RPPs as a baseline, but that's going to have to be an entirely separate event.

CB

Was just wondering since I read a bunch of negative comments on RU about Canon L glass on RED cameras so was curious if anyone has actually tested them against a Cine field and posted the result. I believe Ryan is confusing "Baseline" with "Reference Standard". Baseline to me would be a common lens that everyone can afford and one that is (going to be) in common use on Epic/Scarlet. The Zeiss UP or MP are something maybe .01% of RED nation owns and would be a good Reference Standard. You guys had an Epic/Canon mount to use the Leica R's so why not just throw a Canon lens on that puppy to show what a blue collar lens looks like compared to the elite rental lenses?

Next time you boyz get together for a test like this I'll offer my Epic/Canon and my complete set of L prime glass for the test. There's nothing in the test videos that makes me think that the tested lenses produce a whole different class of image than the Canon's and therefore not worthy of consideration.