silverminer
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We have been doing some test shoots on the RED, which so far has been quite impressive, in terms of quality, but they have been in anything BUT real world conditions.
NOW, I am really keen to press for the RED on our next feature, but am coming up against serious opposition, and would love to hear from fellow REDUSERS who have experience dealing with the issues I'll try to outline below:
These comments are based on previous discussions I've had with both DOP's and Directors:
Budgeting wise the cost to production for a 35mm shoot vs RED ONE is pretty much of a wash. When you consider the cost of post-production has come down considerably, as has the cost of 35mm cameras and film stock; and offset that with the cost of the additional crew required for an HD shoot (the least of which is the wave monitor tech at approx. $800/day), and traveling technically proficient crew to Louisana/Michigan/New Mexico we don't gain a penny.
Additionally, HD requires not only the increase of the film crew by a Wave Tech., but cable pullers for all the video cable. While the cable pullers might be local hires, they still are paid, and fed.
On the RED ONE Camera there is no viewfinder tap, so only one viewing output can be enabled at a time, and it cannot yet record audio; and there is no playback, no auto focus or exposure mode. Some of this may not be an issue to the right operator, except the lack of a 2nd viewfinder tap which effects the Director and the D.P., if he is not also the Operator. It can also have an issue with the blacks being "true" or consistent; this was an issue for one director in particular on a film he did.
The RED ONE Camera has a shallow depth of field, and this could affect us with hand-held work requirements, and would require top notch focus pullers, which means more cost to bring that crew in which could otherwise be hired locally. This is a particular issue, as we are looking at significant amounts of handheld. Why is the RED different in the aspect from the other HD cameras. For example, 24 is shot wholly on HD, and mostly handheld, by two cameramen, rolling simultaneously and they are shooting an ep in under 7 days.
Power box - the power box has to be removed to be charged, which means additional down time on the set, or rental of additional power boxes for each camera, which is more cost. If requires a D.P. who is well versed in shooting on HD, understanding of the lighting issues with skin tones; and aware that the iris and shutter speed or filters is the only control he will have on impacting this image until it is downloaded and run through the software on the Avid. We risk having images that won't match and that could increase our post costs, some of which are charged hourly. Additionally, we will need a makeup artist who is skilled in HD requirements, to "cake" it on!
Another consideration would be in certain prominent film production states (read tax incentives), for example Michigan, you will encounter extreme weather, especially if we are discussing the winter months. All HD equipment is very temperature sensitive, not to mention the lengths of cables and constantly dealing with snaking spaggettiesque cables in snow/ice.
All in all, most DOPs I speak with seem to be on a downer with this and all suggest the known quantity that is 35mm presents us with fewer issues, lower costs (in both time and production costs), and overall affords the finished film a better look.
As I said, these are a summary of some of the comments I've been getting, whilst pushing hard and constantly evaluating the RED in our own experiments.
I look forward to hearing thoughts, from others who are using the RED. And in particular from those who have used the RED in extreme conditions, without a wave tech etc. - so that I can hear other's thoughts on the above. Has anyone else experienced problems like the above - darks, cables, depth of field etc. -- if so what did they do? How did it turn out?
Does anyone have experience of field testing the RED ONE, where these have not been issues? I mean, every format has its issues, but forewarned is forearmed, and as I am keen to push all of our production onto HD, and in particular the RED ONE, I am trying to garner as much info as possible to support my case!
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Jason
NOW, I am really keen to press for the RED on our next feature, but am coming up against serious opposition, and would love to hear from fellow REDUSERS who have experience dealing with the issues I'll try to outline below:
These comments are based on previous discussions I've had with both DOP's and Directors:
Budgeting wise the cost to production for a 35mm shoot vs RED ONE is pretty much of a wash. When you consider the cost of post-production has come down considerably, as has the cost of 35mm cameras and film stock; and offset that with the cost of the additional crew required for an HD shoot (the least of which is the wave monitor tech at approx. $800/day), and traveling technically proficient crew to Louisana/Michigan/New Mexico we don't gain a penny.
Additionally, HD requires not only the increase of the film crew by a Wave Tech., but cable pullers for all the video cable. While the cable pullers might be local hires, they still are paid, and fed.
On the RED ONE Camera there is no viewfinder tap, so only one viewing output can be enabled at a time, and it cannot yet record audio; and there is no playback, no auto focus or exposure mode. Some of this may not be an issue to the right operator, except the lack of a 2nd viewfinder tap which effects the Director and the D.P., if he is not also the Operator. It can also have an issue with the blacks being "true" or consistent; this was an issue for one director in particular on a film he did.
The RED ONE Camera has a shallow depth of field, and this could affect us with hand-held work requirements, and would require top notch focus pullers, which means more cost to bring that crew in which could otherwise be hired locally. This is a particular issue, as we are looking at significant amounts of handheld. Why is the RED different in the aspect from the other HD cameras. For example, 24 is shot wholly on HD, and mostly handheld, by two cameramen, rolling simultaneously and they are shooting an ep in under 7 days.
Power box - the power box has to be removed to be charged, which means additional down time on the set, or rental of additional power boxes for each camera, which is more cost. If requires a D.P. who is well versed in shooting on HD, understanding of the lighting issues with skin tones; and aware that the iris and shutter speed or filters is the only control he will have on impacting this image until it is downloaded and run through the software on the Avid. We risk having images that won't match and that could increase our post costs, some of which are charged hourly. Additionally, we will need a makeup artist who is skilled in HD requirements, to "cake" it on!
Another consideration would be in certain prominent film production states (read tax incentives), for example Michigan, you will encounter extreme weather, especially if we are discussing the winter months. All HD equipment is very temperature sensitive, not to mention the lengths of cables and constantly dealing with snaking spaggettiesque cables in snow/ice.
All in all, most DOPs I speak with seem to be on a downer with this and all suggest the known quantity that is 35mm presents us with fewer issues, lower costs (in both time and production costs), and overall affords the finished film a better look.
As I said, these are a summary of some of the comments I've been getting, whilst pushing hard and constantly evaluating the RED in our own experiments.
I look forward to hearing thoughts, from others who are using the RED. And in particular from those who have used the RED in extreme conditions, without a wave tech etc. - so that I can hear other's thoughts on the above. Has anyone else experienced problems like the above - darks, cables, depth of field etc. -- if so what did they do? How did it turn out?
Does anyone have experience of field testing the RED ONE, where these have not been issues? I mean, every format has its issues, but forewarned is forearmed, and as I am keen to push all of our production onto HD, and in particular the RED ONE, I am trying to garner as much info as possible to support my case!
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Jason
