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Debayer: Red Rocket vs. Software

axel ebermann

axel ebermann

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Hey guys,

I just read on some endless thread somewhere that there are slight differences between
how Red Raw footage is debayered when going through the Red Rocket vs. Software.

Does anybody have any intel on that ?


Just to make sure everybody understands my intention:

This is not to slam any of the methods - just to determine if in some situation either
workflow might be better.


cheers

axel
 
Whenever this has come up the Red guys say there is no difference at all between software and Rocket debater.

To my eyes, there is a very slight difference ... but frankly I only note it when pixel peeping, often looking at a still on a well calibrated display.

In normal viewing I just can't tell.

As far as characterizing the difference ... I can't. First off, you won't see a difference on every shot/scene. What kind of difference you see also varies.

So, my conclusion is that there are no meaningful differences between Rocket debayer and software debayer.

I'd say that you should always use the Rocket for any type of project or workflow. I'd only test software debayer if you are having a problem with Rocket debayer.
 
i dont have any experience with software yet just Redrocket Card and its very slow for me especially for slowmo shots.takes hours
running 16gb ram QuadCore Xeon 2.66 NVIDIA GeForce GT 120, Gdrives and RR
wondering how performance will vary between this and i7 920 16GB Ram, 2x Gtx 480 SLI,Windows on SSD and WD Black Drives without RR.gonna built this pc in soon
 
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a red whiz said in a post that there is a difference. i think it was deanan.



Alexander Ibrahim said:
Whenever this has come up the Red guys say there is no difference at all between software and Rocket debater.

To my eyes, there is a very slight difference ... but frankly I only note it when pixel peeping, often looking at a still on a well calibrated display.

In normal viewing I just can't tell.

As far as characterizing the difference ... I can't. First off, you won't see a difference on every shot/scene. What kind of difference you see also varies.

So, my conclusion is that there are no meaningful differences between Rocket debayer and software debayer.

I'd say that you should always use the Rocket for any type of project or workflow. I'd only test software debayer if you are having a problem with Rocket debayer.
Click to expand...
 
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although this thread is about quality and not performance this is odd.

My Red Rocket card flies through the footage. Way faster than realtime.
If you have hours of footage though - yes - it might actually take hours...


Kemalettin Sert said:
i dont have any experience with software yet just Redrocket Card and its very slow for me especially for slowmo shots.takes hours
running 16gb ram QuadCore Xeon 2.66 NVIDIA GeForce GT 120, Gdrives and RR
wondering how performance will vary between this and i7 920 16GB Ram, 2x Gtx 480 SLI,Windows on SSD and WD Black Drives without RR.gonna built this pc in soon
Click to expand...
 
Hi, I have been trying to find something about how redrocket deals with slowmo-footage. Do you get realtime playback with slowmotion? Does it differ between 2K, 3K and 5K footage? And what times do you get when exporting different resolutions? /Calle

Kemalettin Sert said:
i dont have any experience with software yet just Redrocket Card and its very slow for me especially for slowmo shots.takes hours
Click to expand...
 
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I have to admit I do not really time everything. Just grade it, put it in the queue, wait until it is done.
I often do hours of footage at once and just let the system churn through it overnight.

I do know though that a clip that takes about 30minutes without the rocket will be done within
about 3 minutes on my system (8-core pro mac, 16gb ram) using the latest version of Redcine-X.

playback: I indeed get real playback in slomo at half debayer. No difference between 2k-4k.
Have not tried 5k yet (Jarred where is my Epic ??? :-)

Here is what I gathered from previous experiences:

- get fast drives.
- make sure that the red rocket is happy with your external drives, especially Esata.
I had a couple of unpleasant experiences with digital artifacts while exporting to external Raids and now
only use my internal raid in my mac tower.


Carl Dieker said:
Hi, I have been trying to find something about how redrocket deals with slowmo-footage. Do you get realtime playback with slowmotion? Does it differ between 2K, 3K and 5K footage? And what times do you get when exporting different resolutions? /Calle
Click to expand...
 
There are differenses.

Graeme usually describes the Rocket debayer as "slightly sharper"

The Rocket debayering is the way to go, if you have the chance, but there are some tradeoffs:

No DRX (not a biggie with Epic, it seems, but def with R1)
You can pretty much emulate the DRX function with the RGB curves, though

No sharpening or processing at all in the debayer.

You could setup renderfarms for non-rocket workflows, though and get good speeds...
 
the voice of wisdom from the north.
sharp is good. usually.

all this makes me want to do a test.



Gunleik Groven said:
There are differenses.

Graeme usually describes the Rocket debayer as "slightly sharper"

The Rocket debayering is the way to go, if you have the chance, but there are some tradeoffs:

No DRX (not a biggie with Epic, it seems, but def with R1)
You can pretty much emulate the DRX function with the RGB curves, though

No sharpening or processing at all in the debayer.

You could setup renderfarms for non-rocket workflows, though and get good speeds...
Click to expand...
 
They are different, not necessarily better or worse, as said Rocket is slightly sharper so and algorithms must be different.

Id say Red has a pre planned trajectory having a good idea what processing is likely to become available to one day make rocket unnecessary for day to day work. May be we could take a guess at when that time may be.
 
Rocket = a bit sharper
Software = a bit smoother
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Whenever this has come up the Red guys say there is no difference at all between software and Rocket debater.
Click to expand...

This isn't what I've seen. They say there is no difference between the SDK that other companies use and RedCine, but Graeme had this to say about RR vs Software

"The software demosaic is not the same as the Rocket hardware demosaic. The software demosaic is too complex to run in hardware, but it benefits from being smoother, whereas the Rocket demosaic is sharper. The R3D decode, matrix and LUTs are fully matched between hardware and software."
 
Well, I was wrong about what I said the Red guys wrote ... but I stand by my opinions on the results.

I will reanalyze some footage when I get a break and revisit this impression of mine.

I still think that for the majority of all footage, there is no practical difference.

If you are finishing 4K ... well then you might be a bit more concerned (I wouldn't) ... but at 2K or 1080p its just not really visible.
 
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