Daylight filters

[Evolution]

I have posted a number of questions lately and appreciate all of the feedback and help. I have a much better understanding of what I need to do, but am looking for one last bit of knowledge.

I am shooting one person, in front of a green-screen, through a teleprompter, I only have tungsten lights, so I feel I have 3 options:

1.) Just shoot with tungsten and color correct in post.
2.) Put a filter on the camera itself, but it would have to be a filter that goes on the lens, matte-box will not fit in hood of teleprompter.
3.) Put gels on all tungsten lights.

That being said, opinions for best results?

I am leaning towards option 3, but if I go that route:
1.) Which gel filter (whole, half, quarter - keeping in mind prompter will cause 1/2 stop loss).
2.) There are typical office fluorescent overhead lights in the room, do I need gels for those too, or are fluorescent lights all 5600k daylight?

Thank you...

 

[Dominik Muench]

if you shoot red and with no mixed lighting....with just tungsten lights....all you have to do is set the camera white balance to tungsten. or export form red alert with the appropriate color temperature set and you will be fine.

much easier than playing around with filters or grading later on in post. and you wont loose any stops, when you are gelling lights.

fluorescent lights can come in daylight or tungsten balanced as well, depending on what brand you use. kinoflos have color coded tubes....the tungsten ones have an orange color band on one end and the daylight ones a blue one.

 

[Evolution]

I have been going crazy with how to shoot this. I have had major fear of shooting with tungsten, and my footage would be useless. If the option is there to set the white balance to tungsten and call it a day that would be great.

Does this still work if I am shooting the person on a green screen?

Also, most importantly, if there are overhead fluorescent lights in at the location, does that mess up the "only tungsten" part of your solution?

Thank you very much...

 

[Dominik Muench]

whats wrong with shooting tungsten lights ?????

you get good results from shooting greenscreen with tungsten, of course if you can afford daylight sources that would be better...but tungsten is not a bad option.

the fluoros might cause some greenish spill....any chance they can be switched off ? and if not, can you gel them to tungsten ?

besides...the RED chip offers slightly better results with tungsten anyway from my understanding, since the chips is more noisy in the blue channel.

 

[Joel Kaye]

I have had major fear of shooting with tungsten

Put an 80D filter on your camera and you'll see a noticeable improvement over tungsten alone. All daylight is optimal. Changing the white balance in camera is irrelevant - it simply changes what you're seeing on the monitor and the color correction that will be applied to the proxy files.

Can you do a test? Do that first and see what your compositor says.

 

[Alexis Hanawalt]

There seems to be a bunch of major misunderstanding here. RED is weaker in the blue channel - thus needs MORE blue light, thus DAYLIGHT. The only way you get noise in any channel is with insufficient light.

That said, if there is sufficient light in any color temperature, you will get a beautiful image.

Evolution, you can set the camera to any white balance you would like via auto, the presets, or manually punching in a Kelvin degree. Beyond this, the RED is only recording these settings as metadata - in Redcine or RedAlert, you can change the footage you shot to any other white balance AFTER THE FACT. You can shoot at 10,000K and switch it to 5600K in post, and it will be identical to footage shot at 5600K.

I've been on set with major Fortune 500 brands shooting spots that have aired nationwide... all lit with tungsten light.

 

[Dominik Muench]

There seems to be a bunch of major misunderstanding here. RED is weaker in the blue channel - thus needs MORE blue light, thus DAYLIGHT. The only way you get noise in any channel is with insufficient light.

damn, thanks for that. and sorry for the mix up.

 

[Alexis Hanawalt]

I want to just add here that for many of us there has been a steep learning curve when shooting RED and especially here on this forum we hear tell of many worst-case situations that have occurred... BUT, it is my belief and experience that the camera behaves incredibly well in any shooting circumstance, is incredibly lenient and forgiving, and just tends to make whatever you're shooting look good. The exception to this is focus... not that the camera has trouble with it - but that it should be a concern - have a decent sized production monitor - use the image zoom feature - whatever it takes - make sure your focus is on target, and everything else is working in your favor.

 

[Dominik Muench]

I want to just add here that for many of us there has been a steep learning curve when shooting RED and especially here on this forum we hear tell of many worst-case situations that have occurred... BUT, it is my belief and experience that the camera behaves incredibly well in any shooting circumstance, is incredibly lenient and forgiving, and just tends to make whatever you're shooting look good. The exception to this is focus... not that the camera has trouble with it - but that it should be a concern - have a decent sized production monitor - use the image zoom feature - whatever it takes - make sure your focus is on target, and everything else is working in your favor.

dito.....so far its only been smooth sailing for me as well *knocks on wood just in case.

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

I use an 80C filter when I shoot greenscreen. Corrects tungsten to 4900K (red is 5000).

Consensus is that tungsten and greenscreen is not a real problem (bluescreen moreso). By putting an 80 series adds a little blue in front of the lens - saves gel on all your lights.

Taping a filter on for a teleprompter won't be a big deal.

An 80C (or 80D) will give you a cleaner image.

 

[David Didato]

Are you shooting in an office, Evolution? Your biggest problem if you gel the tungstens would then be power. I second what Cinewalt said - as long as you have adequate light shooting tungsten is perfectly fine on RED. This is a common misconception.
There are many who agree that only if you STARVE the blue channel of light can you expect a bad noise issue.

That being said, if you have enough power to light the screen and talent AND use either 1/2 CTB or an 80C filter, then by all means go for the cleanest image possible.

In most offices I've shot in, being able to double the light to compensate for losing a full stop to the prompter/CTB combo would require a generator.

 

[Evolution]

Yes I am shooting in an office. My concern was there are overhead flourescent lights that may have to be on. Didn't know how that would effect the shot ( tungsten and overhead fluorscent).

Secondly, I have heard 80 A, B & C all reccomended. What would work best in the scenerio ( above lights, green screen, and prompted).

Also, what is the best place to buy and brand to buy ( I have red rock matte, but can't fit with prompted).... Thank you