Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DaVinci for Mac, game changer or game over?

jake blackstone said:
Save your money on Davio. Resolve includes full Cinespace support. Just provide your monitor profile (just find someone with Cinespace to profile it for you) and the target profile and Resolve will build your own custom 3D monitor LUT. Resolve is world class! It's like getting Truelight thrown in for free...
Scratch? No dice...
It seems, that I keep harping at shortcomings of Scratch, but people keep comparing $70k Scratch to $1k software only Resolve or even $50k Resolve with one of the best panels out here (it was $70k only last year) and I'm just pointing out, that Resolve isn't such bad choice:-)
Click to expand...

Thank for the tip Jake, I'll keep Davio for the projector :) - OFF TOPIC- Do you have any experience with Xrite Hubble ? END OFF TOPIC.

We can discuss hours about features of every grading systems on the market but according to the passion here, game changer is the appropriate reply :)
 
Of course Andrea. But someone with a 50K DaVinci will want to make some of his money back, and while you sit and wait for the $50,000 or $1,000 DaVinci, Me and the guys with all the other suites, from Pablos to Speedgrades are making money, providing service, building relationships and expanding our skills.

Succesful color rooms are not just a software, SPECIALLY when you are going to be working 10-20 days with the same guy. It takes a lot of patience and client-savy, and while you might have those skills, it doesn't mean the guy you will hire to drive it will. So you will have to stop doing all the profitable things you could do, to drive the suite.

I really could have cared less which system my colorist picked. IN all honesty, the cheapest one possible for him to feel he can deliver to his clients and not to be making up excuses. He wanted Baselight, end of story. Happy Colorist, happy Clients :-)

It will be a TON harder for the guy with the 50K DaVinci to explain how his setup is deifferent to his kid's, than for me to explain that one :-)
 
Frank Cueto said:
We didn't check out specs when we bought Baselight. We just tried out the systems and picked out the one we liked the most, THEN we went about the process of acquiring. Took us better part of a Year to buy into it. are there cheaper solutions? OF COURSE. we paid a GODLY amount for it, but it has been good to us.

I suggest driving the systems first. THen choose which one you like and fits best with your clientele and then making a financial plan around that decision. Maybe it could be a loss leader for you if it gets u a ton of volume in other departments?

Also, as a small-medium facility its nice to not hear my clients mention to me how their kids have the pirated version at home :-) Believe it or not thats a HUGE PLUS in my market. I feel sorry for the facilities that have to work harder all the time to justify their rates and then they hear a comment like that one from their client. Yes its about the talent, but it doesn't help ONE BIT...

The same way you can buy it for 1K, someone else will download it for 0K.

Heard about something similar happening with scratch and smoke/flame. Its nice to not hear my client say that their kids got baselight back home.
Click to expand...
A couple of years ago I had a grading facility in Kiev. I had Baselight HD and I couldn't be happier with it, but just about every other place in town had pirated copy of either Scratch or Lustre or just Color. But clients still would come over, because I was providing superior quality. Now I get jobs from all over Eastern Europe and it is not because I have high quality tools, but of the quality of my work. Now, more than ever, one needs to be informed, as to what is out there in order to be able to explain clearly and truthfully why you can provide better service, than the guy next door with pirated copy. Everyone knows Baselight and everyone knows DaVinci. So now, you can't just dismiss the little guys on purely name recognition. Now he has the same prestigious label without pirating it. And now YOU have to deliver and justify the higher price. And that you can't just buy. Reputation can only be earned...
 
Kids love playing with knobs... their toy doesn't have any knobs... a two year old can see the difference.
 
jake blackstone said:
A couple of years ago I had a grading facility in Kiev. I had Baselight HD and I couldn't be happier with it, but just about every other place in town had pirated copy of either Scratch or Lustre or just Color. But clients still would come over, because I was providing superior quality. Now I get jobs from all over Eastern Europe and it is not because I have high quality tools, but of the quality of my work. Now, more than ever, one needs to be informed, as to what is out there in order to be able to explain clearly and truthfully why you can provide better service, than the guy next door with pirated copy. Everyone knows Baselight and everyone knows DaVinci. So now, you can't just dismiss the little guys on purely name recognition. Now he has the same prestigious label without pirating it. And now YOU have to deliver and justify the higher price. And that you can't just buy. Reputation can only be earned...
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more!!! I am glad it's that way :hat:
 
Frank Cueto said:
We didn't check out specs when we bought Baselight. We just tried out the systems and picked out the one we liked the most, THEN we went about the process of acquiring. Took us better part of a Year to buy into it. are there cheaper solutions? OF COURSE. we paid a GODLY amount for it, but it has been good to us.

I suggest driving the systems first. THen choose which one you like and fits best with your clientele and then making a financial plan around that decision. Maybe it could be a loss leader for you if it gets u a ton of volume in other departments?

Also, as a small-medium facility its nice to not hear my clients mention to me how their kids have the pirated version at home :-) Believe it or not thats a HUGE PLUS in my market. I feel sorry for the facilities that have to work harder all the time to justify their rates and then they hear a comment like that one from their client. Yes its about the talent, but it doesn't help ONE BIT...

The same way you can buy it for 1K, someone else will download it for 0K.

Heard about something similar happening with scratch and smoke/flame. Its nice to not hear my client say that their kids got base-light back home.
Click to expand...

Guess what buddy we are not your clients, I really don't care how many people pirate the software, I will buy the $995 Davinci Resolve, its a no brainer, I will also buy an BM ultra-scope. There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking out the specs on paper or discussing the short comings. There are some on this thread that own facilities just like yours or are trying to build facilities, so getting information from people like you is very relevant. there are thousands of kids pirating whatever they get their hands on 99.9% of their stuff ends up on youtube. If your clients kid has base-light at home and is talented, you should freelance jobs to him at pizza delivery prices.
 
shashbugu said:
Guess what buddy we are not your clients, I really don't care how many people pirate the software, I will buy the $995 Davinci Resolve, its a no brainer, I will also buy an BM ultra-scope. There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking out the specs on paper or discussing the short comings. There are some on this thread that own facilities just like yours or are trying to build facilities, so getting information from people like you is very relevant. there are thousands of kids pirating whatever they get their hands on 99.9% of their stuff ends up on youtube. If your clients kid has base-light at home and is talented, you should freelance jobs to him at pizza delivery prices.
Click to expand...

I used to be the guy doing the jobs for Pizza (back in 1992-94 on amiga's turbo silver) :-) got hired to work on a video toaster in exchange for RAM, all 512K's of it.

Dont get me wrong, people like you are thE best clients in the world. Once they walk in, I know they tried at home and come with a lot of respect for what we do. When it comes time to put a price on the work that makes it a LOT easier.


Matter of fact, I believe 100% of my clientele has FCP and Color and all those things, i've being hearing the demise of the "high-end" suite for decades ( alot of people forget that high-end suites come with HIGH-END service as well). The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
jake blackstone said:
Said all that, I wish I still had my Baselight. In my own opinion, it's the best overall system out there at any price. And FilmLight is an outstanding company. I'm jealous:-)
Click to expand...

That's easily fixed, rent our suite :sifone::sifone:

(friendly banter, this thread is turning into a minefield, hence this disclaimer ;-) )
 
Frank Cueto said:
I used to be the guy doing the jobs for Pizza (back in 1992-94 on amiga's turbo silver) :-) got hired to work on a video toaster in exchange for RAM, all 512K's of it.

Dont get me wrong, people like you are thE best clients in the world. Once they walk in, I know they tried at home and come with a lot of respect for what we do. When it comes time to put a price on the work that makes it a LOT easier.


Matter of fact, I believe 100% of my clientele has FCP and Color and all those things, i've being hearing the demise of the "high-end" suite for decades ( alot of people forget that high-end suites come with HIGH-END service as well). The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Click to expand...

Good point. I actually only use facilities for commercial projects. Its just satisfying
 
Frank Cueto said:
Of course Andrea. But someone with a 50K DaVinci will want to make some of his money back, and while you sit and wait for the $50,000 or $1,000 DaVinci, Me and the guys with all the other suites, from Pablos to Speedgrades are making money, providing service, building relationships and expanding our skills.

Succesful color rooms are not just a software, SPECIALLY when you are going to be working 10-20 days with the same guy. It takes a lot of patience and client-savy, and while you might have those skills, it doesn't mean the guy you will hire to drive it will. So you will have to stop doing all the profitable things you could do, to drive the suite.

I really could have cared less which system my colorist picked. IN all honesty, the cheapest one possible for him to feel he can deliver to his clients and not to be making up excuses. He wanted Baselight, end of story. Happy Colorist, happy Clients :-)

It will be a TON harder for the guy with the 50K DaVinci to explain how his setup is deifferent to his kid's, than for me to explain that one :-)
Click to expand...

Frank, your facility is running for several years. I started mine 2 years ago. French market is going down for one year now :) and lot of big post companies have terrible financial problems here. All investments I'm going to make for the future are decisive. I have a young and talentuous colorist with me and a worklow killer. They are my treasure.

My clients care about those talents, about the service we provide, but they care a LOT more for money than ever. I have no problem with high-end Luster or baselight, but I know I can't have the money back with a 150 K$ station at this time. With BM annoucement, the choice is much more complicated than ever :)
 
jake blackstone said:
Where and how can Scratch do that? Yes, it can LOAD prebuilt LUT, but can't BUILD it. A huge and critical difference.
Click to expand...

Jake,

Yes, SCRATCH can build LUTs. Actually, SCRATCH can build 1D & 3D LUTs, as well as S.Two XML LUTs and a couple of other specific formats I can't remember.

SCRATCH can also concatenate color corrections into LUTs, combine an existing LUT with a color correction to make a new LUT (like adding a trim to an existing monitor LUT) and convert external curve data into 1D LUTs. Starting with version 4.0, we could also turn a 1D LUT into a curve that can then be exported or used in an existing SCRATCH color stack.

We can also combine LUTs on a per clip or per timeline basis. So, for instance, a user can combine a 1D + 3D + 1D LUT to get very accurate calibration.

We do not include a probe with SCRATCH. We are not a calibration company and believe others do at best. But, both Cinespacr and Truelight both output 3DL files, which is the native LUT format for SCRATCH.

In addition, we can read and output any bit-depth for LUTs' including 8-, 10-, 12-, 16-, and 32-bit float Cubes.

Best,

Lucas
 
Last edited:
Lucas Wilson said:
Jake,

Yes, SCRATCH can build LUTs. Actually, SCRATCH can build 1D & 3D LUTs, as well as S.Two XML LUTs and a couple of other specific formats I can't remember.

SCRATCH can also concatenate color corrections into LUTs, combine an existing LUT with a color correction to make a new LUT (like adding a trim to an existing monitor LUT) and convert external curve data into 1D LUTs. Starting with version 4.0, we could also turn a 1D LUT into a curve that can then be exported or used in an existing SCRATCH color stack.

We can also combine LUTs on a per clip or per timeline basis. So, for instance, a user can combine a 1D + 3D + 1D LUT to get very accurate calibration.

We do not include a probe with SCRATCH. We are not a calibration company and believe others do at best. But, both Cinespacr and Truelight both output 3DL files, which is the native LUT format for SCRATCH.

In addition, we can read and output any bit-depth for LUTs' including 8-, 10-, 12-, 16-, and 32-bit float Cubes.

Best,

Lucas
Click to expand...
Hi Lucas.
That's a fine tap dance you just did. I know, that you know very well what I had meant. So, I will ask again. Say you have a projector, that you use to grade for a filmout. It can be profiled with Cinespace with Hubble probe. You can hire someone to do it for you. Then you can use the film lab to send the film patches to Cinespace and they will profile that and create for you the target profile. You just plug in both of those profiles into Resolve and presto, it will output a proper 3D Cube, that you can use for the filmout DI grading for that lab with your projector. And, yes, you can concatenate the printer light correction on top of that cube. Still want to say, that Scratch can do that? You are talking about look LUT export. Big diff...
 
jake blackstone said:
That's a fine tap dance you just did. I know, that you know very well what I had meant.
Click to expand...

Can you dial down the hostility a bit? ; )

jake blackstone said:
So, I will ask again. ... Still want to say, that Scratch can do that?
Click to expand...

Yes, SCRATCH can do that, and has been able to do that for a few years now. It's a fairly crucial part of the filmout workflow for many of our customers.

Lucas
 
Lucas Wilson said:
Can you dial down the hostility a bit? ; )



Yes, SCRATCH can do that, and has been able to do that for a few years now. It's a fairly crucial part of the filmout workflow for many of our customers.

Lucas
Click to expand...

As you probably remember Lucas, in the past I was always defending Scratch, when it was unfairly attacked. I do not have personal ax to grind and personally I find Scratch to be a capable conforming and grading tool. Calling Scratch a capable compositing system is a bit of a stretch. Not having truly dedicated control panel will always be a bit of disadvantage. Any serious colorist will attest to that. And I still do not believe, that Scratch can create a monitor LUT from scratch, as I'd described. But those are small potatoes...
What truly disappoints me, are all these proclamations of happiness for BM announcement and what they have done. Frankly, I would be mad as hell, cause they just stole your business model and in the process undercut your product line by a wide margin. You're not competing with Color or Speedgrade on a low end and $500k systems on the high end anymore. So, where is your Grant Petty? Why not come out and say what you're planning to do about it. Are you planning to have any kind of an answer? You have legions of fans and they want some reassurance, that their bet and investment wasn't wrong. Instead all you're doing is harping, that it's all vaporware. Resolve on Mac exists and I saw and played with it at NAB. It's as real as Scratch.
The silence is deafening...
Edit: Actually, to be fair to Assimilate, all other companies, may be with an exception of FilmLight, are completely silent on the subject as well. But then again, none of them positioned themselves as a low cost alternative to heavy iron.
 
Come on Jake. Cut the assimilate guys a bit os Slack (they must be gathering some ideas and listening to reactions from current customers). I know a couple of 'em and I am sure they are prepping something interesting.
 
Frank Cueto said:
Come on Jake. Cut the assimilate guys a bit os Slack (they must be gathering some ideas and listening to reactions from current customers). I know a couple of 'em and I am sure they are prepping something interesting.
Click to expand...

Frank. I have no problem with cutting Assimilate some slack. But do you really think, that unless BM didn't do the announcement, Assimilate would have done something drastic? I believe, that this turn of events should have been foreseen, knowing BM's history of disruptive pricing. It's just shortsighted corporate governance. Granted, $995 is straight out of realm of fantasy, but still...
And I think you missed the point of my rant. I want Assimilate to stand up and fight. Calling Resolve vaporware doesn't cut it...
 
I don't get this aggression toward Assimilate right now. I thought people were happy about Resolve. Anyway does anyone know if Resolve for mac will be able to play back HD or 2k DPX files in real time? And can I import mattes created in other apps like Fusion or After Effects into Resolve?

Did anyone get a hands on demo at NAB? I'd love to hear your impressions of Resolve for mac.
 
As I read through this thread, which has been both informative and entertaining, I wonder if any of this conversation would be happening if we were all standing in the same room.

I wonder if anyone would get punched in the face.

David.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top