Dailies, the cost and why?

[Justin Kirchhoff]

I'm still amazed at the large number of industry professionals who don't know how to work with RED footage. The rumors, both good and bad, are still flooding the market.

I was at a post house just the other week and they were informing clients on how they can produce dailies and CC with a very quick turn around using a DaVinci 2k Resolve. They are professionals and are offering their skills for a post workflow, but what they were explaining to their clients just seemed ignorant.

So before I explain anymore, what are most post houses charging for turnaround dailies and workflow consultants on let's say, a 2 day commercial shoot on RED. I'm really interested for a few reasons, but I'd like to know what the market average is right now...

 

[Greg M]

I was at a post house just the other week and they were informing clients on how they can produce dailies and CC with a very quick turn around using a DaVinci 2k Resolve. They are professionals and are offering their skills for a post workflow, but what they were explaining to their clients just seemed ignorant.
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Justin,
This is very typical for a post house to provide dailies with a one light cc to clients...its the way we have been working for years with film and with the Red its no different. Typical commercial clients dont want to do this themselves, they budgeted for the post house to provide this service and dont really care how it happens as long as it does.

You usually pay by the hour, it averages $300-$400 per hour of labor.

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Thanks. I know why it is done. I just didn't know why this particular post house thought they had nailed the workflow when I think they didn't. But we all have different workflows with the footage.

I mean RedRushes is great for dailies work, I'd output to 720p onto tape or to a drive. It seemed like a few posthouses are just doing one-lights on the proxies and sending those back to the clients. That isn't a terrible thing but I would rather just do a one-light on a R3D file and work from there.

Whatever the case, thanks for the input.

 

[Greg M]

DaVinci now imports r3d, so they are likely dropping the raw files in and color correcting them in realtime and printing dvd's. Its actually a better solution than Red Rushes if you have the budget.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I think ~$500 is what I've seen quoted.

Remember you're paying to keep the artists and systems available with post production. It's rare to keep an artist or DI station busy 100% of the time. So that $500 an hour has to be to keep the artist employed for when you need him the next time and the machine accessible.

Also post houses tend to mark up the 'little things' to generate profit. It's the classic $5 bag of popcorn economics. If you want a digital copy expect a marked up Hard Drive included in the price. I could see Dailies going either way. They might offer dailies on the cheap in order to entice a larger gig or they might mark up dailies a little bit extra as a revenue stream.

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Good to know. I use AE, Synthetic Aperture, etc. They are way cheaper and have done great for me.

 

[Greg M]

I think ~$500 is what I've seen quoted.

sorry, yes its more like $500-$600/hr...if you are going to SR at least $850/hr.

 

[M Most]

sorry, yes its more like $500-$600/hr...if you are going to SR at least $850/hr.

I can't think of anyone other than possibly Company 3 that can get $850 an hour for dailies, regardless of what they are recording on. Especially in the current market.

 

[M Most]

Thanks. I know why it is done. I just didn't know why this particular post house thought they had nailed the workflow when I think they didn't.

That's because you're likely not dealing with either agencies or entertainment clients for which you need to deliver editorial files, viewing copies on multiple DVD's, possible digital dailies uploads (usually Windows Media files), Flex and/or ALE files, and, in many cases, a video master. That's what facilities deal with all the time. If you're an individual, or doing personal or small, self contained projects, you have ways of working that get you what you need, and that's fine. But if you're working with the kind of clients that facilities deal with, you need a colorist, accurate monitoring, and the ability to turn around multiple products in a very short time frame. You don't get that without a bit of horsepower, be that Scratch, Digital Vision, DaVinci, or Baselight.

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

That's because you're likely not dealing with either agencies or entertainment clients for which you need to deliver editorial files, viewing copies on multiple DVD's, possible digital dailies uploads (usually Windows Media files), Flex and/or ALE files, and, in many cases, a video master. That's what facilities deal with all the time. If you're an individual, or doing personal or small, self contained projects, you have ways of working that get you what you need, and that's fine. But if you're working with the kind of clients that facilities deal with, you need a colorist, accurate monitoring, and the ability to turn around multiple products in a very short time frame. You don't get that without a bit of horsepower, be that Scratch, Digital Vision, DaVinci, or Baselight.

I very much understand all of that. You are right. But when they were talking about dpx sequences and going out to 720p, I could do that myself at a cheaper cost. My business isn't based on dailies or the like, I moreso do camera support and DIT work. That's what I'm good at and sticking to it. Just questioning what others are doing to get more knowledge of the industry.

 

[Greg M]

I can't think of anyone other than possibly Company 3 that can get $850 an hour for dailies, regardless of what they are recording on. Especially in the current market.

1080p to SR tape, I can think of many.

of course thats from film....most facilities are still trying to figure out how to deal with Red

 

[M Most]

1080p to SR tape, I can think of many.

of course thats from film....most facilities are still trying to figure out how to deal with Red

Really? Then tell me some, even if it's in a private message.

Regarding figuring out how to deal with Red, that's not entirely the facilities' fault. The fact is that seemingly every week, there's a different set of opinions on what's needed, what's necessary, and what's acceptable. Today, you have some clients (in fact, some network television programs) that now feel that an entirely compressed path, right down to the deliverable, is now acceptable - primarily because it's easier (and, by inference, cheaper), not because it's better than or as good as a reconform from the original files. On the other hand, you have some commercial clients - whose material will never be theatrically projected - using DI techniques and sourcing from the original R3d files to accomplish a television finish. It's a bit of a schizophrenic time in terms of different industry players figuring out what is best and what is simply acceptable - and when "acceptable" means "good enough." As little as a year ago, the notion of a post path that was composed entirely of DNxHD files or ProRes files would have been laughed at by network television producers. Now it seems to be embraced, for better or worse, depending on your point of view. Convenience has won over ultimate quality. The facilties are just trying to deal with changing demands.