Custom Steadicam for REDusers <1800USD - Post your ideas

[David Kellermann]

I opened two weeks ago a thread for a group buy of a Chinese steadicam (English website of a reseller), hoping to find 10 other interested buyers to get a better price. Now there are already 100+ interested buyers and we got quotes from many different manufacturers.

Since the system had some shortcomings (no connectors for video and power, monitor mount etc.), I asked the manufacturer LAING to modify or redesign the system according to our needs, on which they agreed:

We are very interested in customizing a RED version for you. Please send us the list of your wishes, the datasheets and photos. We will try to design and produce a sample first.

The idea is the following: we guarantee 100 sold units at 1800USD, they design a system according to our wishes.

Kwan and some other user bought already the system, so we can base our requests for modifications on their test results.

So post your ideas, if possible with drawings or photos, so that there are no misunderstandings. Or send them right to me via pm or mail, if you don't want to post them openly. If there are aspects of systems by other manufacturers that you want to see in this steadicam, post their datasheets or photos of the parts you liked (i.e. used materials, power distribution, connectors, springs...)

Cheers
David

 

[David Kellermann]

Ideas for modifications

Couple suggestions. Bubble levels on both stage and bottom of the sled. Also a zero degree tilt marker on the stage and a line marker to line up the the shafts. In addition the 15mm ROD assembly for the monitor should have an adjustable height and should also have a marker to line it up on the shaft. Would be great to have a mount that will include the ability to still use weights on the rods.

5v should just be a normal size usb port i think

I would like to ad 3 D-tap female on top of the Sled !

I don't know for others but I use Dtap for all my accessories...so I really need it on a sled for Follow Focus and wireless or maybe sometime led panel attach to the camera...

Also I think it's important to keep the "open source" structure, I mean, the original sled look like you can put the cables thru the center of the sled. It allow us to connect the bottom and the top with any kind of cables ! I found that is one of the advantage of this sled design.

But getting back on topic, quality bubble levels (head and sled) are a great idea, good ones of a visible size/brightness, and won't dry out in a year. Some even have a switched back-light but that's pushing it (As an option?). Self evident, but should still be mentioned, needs to be unobstructed while fully loaded.

This next suggestion is a stretch, but I figured I'd ask anyway, can they incorporate some type of ball or roller bearing, of a common size (so we can find replacements), for all the critical joints in the support arm? They're pretty inexpensive (Every kid's rollerblades has 16 of em), increases smoothness exponentially and would really separate this arm from the others. It would mean additional time on the mill, and some extra labor, but it shouldn't increase the price of manufacture too much (Let's see how serious they are about a redesign). Ahh, I see Nick already mentioned it!

Ability to mount 2 bricks either as a dual mount or additional bracket/post clamp as a modular option.

Both 3/8 inch and 1/4" camera mount.

No real need for any generic printed text or labels like "Camera Stabilizer", "Hotwheel?" etc.

Getting back to the "Complete Redesign" line of thinking, a larger diameter carbon fiber post, would allow additional cable options, but will necessitate new head mount/adapter, gimbal, clamps, sled mount etc. So if it's cost prohibitive, that's understandable.

Here's the OCD side of me talking, can the vest either have a lining or removable pads for washing, but still retain its strength?

Happy to report that the top of the sled does indeed have bubble levels and the arm does have bearings in the critical joints. Quick additions we agreed it needed was markings to determine 90 degree center point for head tilt, a thicker center post for cabling, additional clearance between stand mount and the bottom of the head plate tilt swivel (when mounted on the stand) and slightly heavier springs because the arm was at maximum tension and we just made the weight. Those were the biggest things, I'll post more info/photos when I get to a real computer.

The rig was much better quality than I expected, most of the things I was looking for was already there, like the bubble levels (top of sled), and bearings to smooth the arm's action and removable padding/liner. The quality is certainly much better than what I have come to expect from gear originating from Asia. I own a cheapo vest and arm from India that supported a DSLR/blimp, and also a MEM BO CY-009 (purchased for $2900 over a year and a half ago) which I planned for the Epic, but the quality was severely lacking (think pre-industrialized farm implement). This Laing rig (CAME) is in a whole different league, and as it stands now, I would not hesitate to buy it. But now that we have the manufacturer's attention, if we can improve upon it, all the better!

The main changes we came up with is:

-The Sled's carbon center post could benefit with a wider diameter for cabling. Kwan was just able to get some of the cables through but the plugs were a real tight fit.

-Additional forward travel for the camera mounting dovetail plate. There is plenty of rearward travel, about 4 inches, lockable, but forward travel is only about one inch. I'm not sure how critical forward travel is, since it seems that to balance, the camera would need to slide back, rather than forward, but its up to you guys to determine how important that is. But a good thing is that fine adjustments are achieved via toothed wheels.

-A 90 degree mark for camera head tilt. The camera mount head can tilt up and down, but to find perfect 90 degrees with the center post is difficult without any markings.

-Stronger arm springs! The arm springs barely supported Kwan's Epic rig consisting of 9" touch LCD, V-mount brick, cabling, wireless ff only, RED mattebox, Rokinon/Samyang prime lens. We dialed the tension of the arm to maximum. Adjustment of the springs required an allen wrench even though there is a hand knob . The present springs will not hold a fully loaded Red One.

-Additional clearance of bottom of tilt head when mounted on the sled cradle. A thicker docking ring or additional spacer would solve this problem.

-Power/signal breakout box with lemo, SDI, HDMI, D-tap, 5v combination, top and bottom of sled, to be determined.

-One 3/8" AND two 1/4" mounting screws on the dovetail plate (for normal and low mode mounting off of a cheeseplate. Epic/scarlet may require a spacer block for top venting if mounted this way)

Edit: Forgot to mention these are the things we discovered in addition to previous post by others, I just did not want to repeat too much stuff if it was already brought up, and any omission here does not mean its not important.

My primary concern is the vertical adjustment of the arm. I have heard that it is limited. A good range of vertical adjustment is REALLY important to nail shots at different perspectives. Following a 12 year old vs. tracking a large adult really requires this adjustment.

Ideas for modifications

Stronger arm springs for a payload of up to 11kg or more. Maybe replaceable springs for heavier loads
Easy and fast adjustment of the springs. Right now, an allen wrench is required even though there is a hand knob
All parts milled and not made out of folded metal
Monitor mount on 15mm rods
Battery plate on 15mm rods, angle adjustable (either V-mount or AB-mount depending on every individual order) with LEMO 2pin out
Quick release dovetail system with two 1/4" and one 3/8"
Additional forward travel for the camera mounting dovetail plate
Additional clearance of bottom of tilt head when mounted on the sled cradle. A thicker docking ring or additional spacer would solve this problem
Docking plate which mounts to any light stand
Sturdy carbon pole with diameter between 1.5“ to 2“
Improved vertical adjustment length of the arm
A 90 degree mark for camera head tilt. Also markings on the center pole to align the monitor and battery sleds.
Bubble levels on both stage and bottom of the sled (with back-light)
2x 2pin LEMO, HDMI and an HD-SDI socket at the bottom of the sled
3x 2pin LEMO (2x 12VDC, 1x 5VDC), HDMI and HD-SDI socket at the top of the sled
1x 2pin LEMO to 6pin RED LEMO cable
3x 2pin LEMO to flying wire cables
Junction box with 1/4" thread or rod clamp: 2pin LEMO in / 2x D-Tap, 2x XLR and 2x USB 5v out (at additional cost / not included in the base package)
No generic printed text or labels like "Camera Stabilizer"or "Hotwheel"
All aluminum parts black anodized

 

[David Kellermann]

reserved for photos

 

[Kwan Khan]

Nice Work

 

[Daniel Murphy]

Power of the masses...great teamwork guys!

 

[James McLellan]

Sounds great. Looking forward to seeing what people come up with.

 

[Roy Rossovich]

Sorry I am jumping in late on this, been gone but this is something I am very interested in as well! is it too late to join the group deal?

 

[Iannis Holwech]

http://www.thecinecity.com/eshop/FL...meras-weighing-up-to-5-15kgs-11lbs-33lbs.html

 

[David Kellermann]

That's the correct power connector for the EPIC, isn't it?

LEMO FGJ.1B.306.CWLD72Z

Do you guys want a 6pin connector at the top and bottom of the sled, so that you can see the RED specific battery data? Or would 2pin and a cable 2pin to 6pin be enough (only voltage information). 2pin is cheaper since it's more of a standard connector. Also it's easier to wire everything to 2pin. I would recommend this 2pin connector and socket: LEMO FGJ.0B.302.CLLD52 and LEMO FWG.0B.302.CLD

I guess a nice setup would be:

Sled

Bottom

2x LEMO 2pin (battery -> sled, sled -> monitor)
1x HD-SDI (sled -> monitor)
1x HDMI with cable clamp (sled -> monitor)

Top

3x LEMO 2 pin (2x 12VDC out (camera and 12V accessory), 1x 5VDC out (5V accessory))
2x HD-SDI (in & loop-through out)
1x HDMI with cable clamp (sled -> monitor)

Cables

1x LEMO 2pin -> LEMO 6pin (sled -> RED)
3x LEMO 2pin -> flying wire (accessories)

Battery plate

1x double battery plate (either V-mount or AB-mount depending on every individual order) to 2pin LEMO

Should we take an other LEMO size for the 5V?

 

[Brad Crawford]

This is definitely headed in the right direction and is very attractive at this price-point.
I can't chime in much on requirements other than to say I agree with your decisions so far David, HDMI and HD-SDI would be great. but if we have to choose just one then HD-SDI seems like the way to go.

Also i'm sure people use both V-mount and AB mount batteries but maybe we can take a poll for the most common choices.

I personally use V-mounts on my scarlet and definitely don't mind having just voltage info via 2 pin LEMO.

 

[David Kellermann]

Anyone with experience as to what kind of springs to use? How many springs? What kind of material?

 

[Max M.]

i also agree, 2 pin connector is fine, voltage info it enough, and i also use v-locks. 5v should just be a normal size usb port i think

 

[Tyler Bourns]

V-locks here as well, I'm fine with that price point, will be amazing value for the cost.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Please make sure there is Anton Bauer option for people like me!

Also this video might be helpful to understand what features an actual steadicam has and how to balance properly.

https://vimeo.com/56138221

 

[roryhinds]

Anton Bauer please. I gave V Lock the boot ages ago as I was tied of battery's unlocking.
Anton Bauer is the bomb.

 

[David Kellermann]

Please make sure there is Anton Bauer option for people like me!

V-mount or AB depending on every individual order.

I sent Laing and CAME a first list of suggestions. Keep them coming!

 

[Quentin Devillers]

I agree to all the previous suggestions !

I would like to ad 3 D-tap female on top of the Sled !

I don't know for others but I use Dtap for all my accessories...so I really need it on a sled for Follow Focus and wireless or maybe sometime led panel attach to the camera...

Also I think it's important to keep the "open source" structure, I mean, the original sled look like you can put the cables thru the center of the sled. It allow us to connect the bottom and the top with any kind of cables ! I found that is one of the advantage of this sled design.

David, maybe can you make or ask for a list of actual specifications of the Came to compare what is missing...

Thanks a lot !

 

[roryhinds]

I agree D-Tap (P-Tap) would be great to power remote ff and wireless video.

 

[Roy Rossovich]

Sounding great, and I agree with Brad on both points of connectivity and power. I think the V-mount is probably more used in the RED community then AB considering RED's own support is V-mount but I could be wrong...

What is the estimated design time looking like for these units? Have they mentioned anything about how fast they will be produced once specs are decided?

Very cool idea though to put this all in motion David.

 

[Ken Willinger]

Anton Bauer for me.