Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Current RED Scarlet can't cover Super 35 area @ 4K???

Gunleik Groven said:
I was talking about MX on R1 and Epic, at least active pxels

The Epic and Scarlet are of course the same...
Click to expand...

I thought it was the imaging area.

R1 M R1 MX same field of view
R1 MX EPIC M Epic uses more of the MX sensor
EPIC M 5K SX 5K Same sensor same field of view in 5K
EPIC M 5K SX 4K Same sensor slightly different field of view


But I never thought the R1M chip was smaller than the MX chip, just the MX was an impoved version of the same size origianl M chip.



David
 
I think the R1M chip was smaller. The larger MX chip improved the low light capability, among other things. But I aint' no expert.
 
The original M chip was only 4.5k the MX chip is 5k.

The 4.5k portion is the same on the RED One. The Epic can use more of the chip than the REDOne. Hence, bigger.
 
G'day Guys,

Sorry math was never my strong suit, looking back on all the comments i think i threw everyone off when i used the term " coverage "

Of coarse the MX@4k will cover the entire area of Super35 lenses because its smaller, and i get using the active 5k of the EPIC will possibly not

cover all S35mm lenses, Rephrasing the question does anyone know the MX 4k crop factor on Super35mm lenses? understanding that a 50mm focal length lens will ALWAYS

remain a 50mm lens as with all lenses!



My original point was , for example i don't want to use a 10mm ultra prime with 100 degrees AOV on a 4k crop and only get say 80-90 degrees of view regardless of the focal length remaining

exactly the same
 
dean tsolakis said:
G'day Guys,

Sorry math was never my strong suit, looking back on all the comments i think i threw everyone off when i used the term " coverage "

Of coarse the MX@4k will cover the entire area of Super35 lenses because its smaller, and i get using the active 5k of the EPIC will possibly not

cover all S35mm lenses, Rephrasing the question does anyone know the MX 4k crop factor on Super35mm lenses? understanding that a 50mm focal length lens will ALWAYS

remain a 50mm lens as with all lenses!



My original point was , for example i don't want to use a 10mm ultra prime with 100 degrees AOV on a 4k crop and only get say 80-90 degrees of view regardless of the focal length remaining

exactly the same
Click to expand...


no need to be so alarmed about it, calculating FOV is part of film-making, and not the most complicated part of it...
this post sort of answers your question
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?51292-Epic-sensor-size.

i wonder though... this link got me confused http://ducloslenses.com/ref/formatref.pdf

Scarlet's (and epic's) lens coverage is 27.7x14.6 which fits right in the rather wide APS-C range (kind of closer to APS-H as i believe width is a more important factor)
the sensor size is 30x15

which should i consider more important?
my logic (and Jeff's answer in the link i posted) goes for lens coverage, and in this case the Duclos Format size reference is wrong (or at least confusing)

however it does look so neat it got me second guessing.


hector


Hector Berrebi
PrePost consulting
 
This document was created to show the drop off with different lenses against different sensors particularly 4k cine lenses on 5k sensor etc. Hence the title of the thread this document came from, "Circles of Confusion". Interesting, this document is creating its own confusion. So what is it, either Matthew is right or this document has errors.

This is way over my head technically so I will sit on the fence on this one & watch ;)

P.S. Maybe this document should have it's one thread ?
 
David,
The first link you had from AbelCine was Excellent, its a confirmation of what i suspected , seems like only 89% of 3 perf S35 is being used, not sure how this translates into crop factor, but i
hope its not more than 1.1x whilst everyone taking about 4K and 5K i knew 4.5K is the Best Super35mm sweet spot
 
The difference in the field of view of a lens on Standard 35mm cine versus Super-35mm is minimal -- Super-35 is just 2mm wider than Standard 35mm cine!

I think on a 10mm lens, it's the difference between a 102 degree view versus a 96 degree view, which in practical terms, is not much.

Really, this is much ado about nothing... it's not like a wide-angle lens becomes a medium focal length because you've cropped a 24mm wide frame to 22mm.

If you had a 50mm lens on a Super-35 camera, you'd need a 45mm lens on a Standard 35mm cine camera to match the field of view. It's the sort of difference that can be accommodated in any number of ways, like backing the camera up a foot...
 
Last edited:
S-35 (4perf) = 24.89mm x 18.66mm
S-35 (3perf) = 24.89mm x 13.9mm
35 mm standard film measures 36×24 mm
A 1.6 crop (4K) of a FF35mm is 22.5mm x 15mm

So 4K is pretty close to being S35mm

1.6 crop factor lens equivalent
SCALE
11mm = 17.6mm
14mm = 22.4mm
16mm = 25.6mm
18mm = 28.8mm
20mm = 32mm
24mm = 38.4mm
25mm = 40mm
28mm = 44.8mm
30mm = 48mm
35mm = 56mm
45mm = 72mm
50mm = 80mm
55mm = 88mm
85mm = 136mm
135mm = 216mm
200mm = 320mm
400mm = 640mm
 
Thanks for your input David !! I love your work, much appreciated

Your right in a way, most people i know say i'm being overly pedantic , but i can really tell the difference between a 10 and a 12

today so many compositions are derived from long / long-medium, which is fine but personally i love the drama that ultra wides bring to emphasise story telling

cheers
 
It's more like the difference between a 11.5 film camera and a 12 for the RED. Unless you've been shooting s35 digitally magically for the last 10 years your film has been getting cropped slightly from the maximum dimensions of the format. Most people you know are right. It's a microscopic difference between a format that is relatively new and almost identical to MX 4k. :P

The variation on projection/curtains from theater to theater will probably be greater than the difference between the two.

EDIT Ok I did the actual FOV calculations and an 10mm @ 4k (22.12) == 11mm @ s35 (24.49)

Untitled-1.jpg
 
D Fuller said:
It is a really bad idea to bet on Matthew Duclos being wrong if the subject is lenses.
Click to expand...

i would think that too...

and yet, if lens coverage is what counts, why would the chart only show Epic/Scarlet's sensor size? (http://ducloslenses.com/ref/formatref.pdf)
i agree that as a sensor size chart it should do just that
but i think it should also have a comment added that actual lens coverage is 27.7x14.6 mm


Hector Berrebi
PrePost consulting
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top