Crimson/RedCine Observations/fixes

[RickyH]

Hey all just wanted to share some workarounds I've figured out in using Crimson and RedCine to online my RED footage.

The workflow is great, considering the very limited alternatives, but for anyone who has been working on FCP and/or Final Touch/Color knows that when v1.0's come out, you have to figure out what works and what doesn't and give the creator feedback to make a kick-ass program that won't cost you $60K.

My workflow is this. Shot on RED 4K, posted on FCP using compressor baked proxies.

Then, after we cut, I just reconnected to the original proxies and used Crimson to get it into RedCine. At this point with Crimson I removed all slugs and text, as well as any material in the sequence that wasn't going to connect to an .r3d file, as well at speed changes. Ian is going to fix the stuff involving the slugs and text in coming versions.

However in RedCine, I was having issues with importing my telecine xml after I imported the intermediates. After some trial and error, I thought it had something to do with the amount of clips, or the length of the sequence. I just split up my reels into sections of no more than 130 clips. That worked for me, however I now think it has something to do with the length of the master clips of the intermediates. It's a theory, but I think if the master footage in your sequence is longer than a certain length, it freaks out RedCine and wouldn't allow me to look past my root directories to import the xml. It was a red flag when I saw how many clips it imported, vs how many Crimson said I have. If it is less, something was wrong.

Long story, but I wanted to put it all out there. Great program, I'm rendering every thing out now.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[I Bloom]

If you can isolate a clip that "freaks it out" and tell me all about that clip, I think that will be helpful.

1. Where is the clip being stored.
2. Where are the intermediates
3. How many 2GB chunks in the clip.
4. What is in the metadata etc.
The more information the better.

I theorizing what would cause this I'm going to guess and say, look for clips in Redcine that span 2GB chunks. Perhaps whatever code is invoked allowing Redcine to span chunks is probably more rarely invoked, and possibly gets freaked by intermediates.... just a theory.

IBloom

 

[Carl Dieker]

clips in Redcine that span 2GB chunks

clips in Redcine that span 2GB chunks

If you can isolate a clip that "freaks it out" and tell me all about that clip, I think that will be helpful.

----

I theorizing what would cause this I'm going to guess and say, look for clips in Redcine that span 2GB chunks

IBloom

Yes, this is definitely what has been screwing up the FCP/CRIMSON/REDCINE workflow for me. I have a documentary project with lots of interviews, at least three shots that span between 20-50 minutes. With them in the Crimson telecine.xml REDCINE flips out, that is to say, it lets me load all the intermidiates but then fails to open the telecine.xml. But as soon as I go back to FCP and delete all those clips, which originate from the 20-50 mintues long R3D.files, my FCP sequence exported as XML to CRIMSON and from there as a telecine.xml to REDCINE, works flawlessly. Would you be able to fix this Bloom, or is it in the hands of RED and REDCINE?

PS: Thanks for a super program!

 

[I Bloom]

Yes, this is definitely what has been screwing up the FCP/CRIMSON/REDCINE workflow for me. I have a documentary project with lots of interviews, at least three shots that span between 20-50 minutes. With them in the Crimson telecine.xml REDCINE flips out, that is to say, it lets me load all the intermidiates but then fails to open the telecine.xml. But as soon as I go back to FCP and delete all those clips, which originate from the 20-50 mintues long R3D.files, my FCP sequence exported as XML to CRIMSON and from there as a telecine.xml to REDCINE, works flawlessly. Would you be able to fix this Bloom, or is it in the hands of RED and REDCINE?

PS: Thanks for a super program!

Redcine is designed to work in the manner intended by it's creators. We are using it in an untintended manner, so it's unfair of us to call it broken. We broke it.

In any case, I do have some ideas. Going to need to do some testing. In the meantime, if you just loaded one clip, 20-50 minutes long into Redcine as an intermediate, would it lock up then? Does the clip have to have in and out points, do the in and out points have to span a chunk break? The more information you can glean about what works and doesn't work, the more we can narrow down the problem.

IBloom

 

[laguun]

Redcine is designed to work in the manner intended by it's creators. We are using it in an untintended manner, so it's unfair of us to call it broken. We broke it.

In any case, I do have some ideas. Going to need to do some testing. In the meantime, if you just loaded one clip, 20-50 minutes long into Redcine as an intermediate, would it lock up then? Does the clip have to have in and out points, do the in and out points have to span a chunk break? The more information you can glean about what works and doesn't work, the more we can narrow down the problem.

IBloom

Hey Ibloom,

sorry for going a little OT:
we have 2 upcoming fullfeatures to edit, the one editor (pretty popular girl) wants to use her beloved avid on win and the other editor needs to use ppro (also on win). both projects start ~mid/end may. shall i tell them about crimson or do you think it would be to early?

 

[Greg Frank]

Hey Ricky.....

Hey Ricky.....

I sure could use a little help with this. 1st time user on Red for a Film Festival and have some knowledge of FCP. I have read about Crimson and will get that soon.....any way I can contact you for help? Mine is kobii@earthlink.net Thanks in advance

 

[I Bloom]

Hey Ibloom,

sorry for going a little OT:
we have 2 upcoming fullfeatures to edit, the one editor (pretty popular girl) wants to use her beloved avid on win and the other editor needs to use ppro (also on win). both projects start ~mid/end may. shall i tell them about crimson or do you think it would be to early?

I'll be writing the EDL subclasses this week. So I can demonstrate them at NAB.

That's not the splash.

Buy Crimson when the demo is working for you and you have a need for more than 7 clips.

Ian

 

[Jason Diamond]

we were working with ian on the AVID workflow last week and its coming along. theres a few holes to be filled by AVID but there are workarounds. he's got alot of tricks up his sleeve so as he says 'if it behooves you grab it now!'

 

[Kenn Michael]

yup, buy it NOW! very much worth it...

crazy stuff coming down the pipe. big splash!

 

[RickyH]

RE: Help

RE: Help

I sure could use a little help with this. 1st time user on Red for a Film Festival and have some knowledge of FCP. I have read about Crimson and will get that soon.....any way I can contact you for help? Mine is kobii@earthlink.net Thanks in advance

If it is about the specific workflow for RED to FCP to RedCine, and back to FCP, Ian has it already broken down in a very detailed and easy to understand way at www.redhax.net

If the question involves prepping a sequence for FCP's Color, then yes, I am someone who can help you out with that.

rickyhayner@gmail.com

 

[Carl Dieker]

problem solved(?)

problem solved(?)

Redcine is designed to work in the manner intended by it's creators. We are using it in an untintended manner, so it's unfair of us to call it broken. We broke it.

In any case, I do have some ideas. Going to need to do some testing. In the meantime, if you just loaded one clip, 20-50 minutes long into Redcine as an intermediate, would it lock up then? Does the clip have to have in and out points, do the in and out points have to span a chunk break? The more information you can glean about what works and doesn't work, the more we can narrow down the problem.

IBloom

I think I have found out what the so-called ”bug” really was all about. And I have a simple fix for it. The problem when REDCINE wouldn't open up the telecine.xml had nothing, as I understand it, to do with R3D.clips spanning over 2 GB files, or as in my case, 20-50 minutes.

It seems that REDCINE only accepts a certain amount of intermediate clips to be loaded. My guess is that the limit is 250.

I did a test with my edited sequence in FCP where I started with only 3 out of of its total 18 clips. I exported the sequence as an xml to crimson and from there as a telecine.xml to REDCINE. It worked until I got above 11 clips:

- the intermediate folder originating from the FCP.xml with 11 clips contained 226 intermediates
- 12 clips = 252 intermediates
- 13 clips = 278 intermediates

So my easy fix was just to split my interview, an edited 15 minutes sequence, in to two separate sequences. So I got one folder with 226 intermediates and one with 182 and everything works great.

My main aim with using Crimson is not having to export full R3D.clips in REDCINE but only to export the edited and color graded cuts as Prores HQ 1080p. At this point the workflow is okay.

 

[Ido Karilla]

avid/crimson workflow

avid/crimson workflow

With the help of crimson editing offline on avid and online on color is almost fluent.

two problems I have encountered.

1. To be able to edit you have to change/add the scene/shot/take numbers to the file name. after the change,on the avid exported EDL the names do not match the R3D files. after importing the EDL to FCP I have to remove all the changes manualy from the master clips to be able to reconect and export a XML to Crimson.

2. If you export 2k QT from Redcine their lengnth do not match exactly, extra frames are created. ( This does not hapen if you export 2k DPX's)

Ido.

 

[I Bloom]

Crimson must create one intermediate link for every clip * every 2GB chunk within each R3D file per clip.

I'll have to see if we can cut up sequences for you in Crimson, that would be better aye....

This project keeps growing.

IBloom

 

[Carl Dieker]

Crimson must create one intermediate link for every clip * every 2GB chunk within each R3D file per clip.

I'll have to see if we can cut up sequences for you in Crimson, that would be better aye....

This project keeps growing.

IBloom

Yes, thanks iBloom, that would do the trick I think.

 

[Andrew Timms]

With the help of crimson editing offline on avid and online on color is almost fluent.

two problems I have encountered.

1. To be able to edit you have to change/add the scene/shot/take numbers to the file name. after the change,on the avid exported EDL the names do not match the R3D files. after importing the EDL to FCP I have to remove all the changes manualy from the master clips to be able to reconect and export a XML to Crimson.

2. If you export 2k QT from Redcine their lengnth do not match exactly, extra frames are created. ( This does not hapen if you export 2k DPX's)

Ido.

Exact same problem for me on a music video -

This fix works for me also - Cheers

 

[Dane Brehm]

All good info to know!!!!

Mike Burton and I have only experimented with smaller commercial projects so I'm glad some folks doing features are posting. Mike and I are working with Ian to try to transcode ProResHQ back to Redcine to Kick out DPXs for Final Delivery....Fun Stuff.

Great Work All!!