CRANK 2 and the need for SCARLET

[Rudi Herbert]

Just read on American Cinematographer that CRANK 2 was shot entirely on Canon HDV cameras, all shooting at glorious 1440 x 1080 resolution at 4:2:0 sampling and 8 bits. I thought the movie was originally planned for RED, but ultimately, these guys didn't even go for the better formats like XDCAM (some scenes were shot on an EX1, but very few) and opted for HDV recorded to tape!

Last week, I saw a trailer for CRANK2 projected digitally, and besides the fact that the color grading and frantic pacing are not to my taste, the clips INDEED looked sharp on a big screen. Now, whether we like the particular look of this film or not, a case is to be made that SCARLET will take this approach to a very much improved next level. Imagine shooting on something that weighs almost the same as an HDV camera, but records RAW, 4:4:4 at up to 4K resolution with small primes to boot! RED1 is digital equivalent to a 35mm camera, but Scarlet will fill the void between that higher echelon and the current compressed HD formats that deliver enough resolution for the big screen but lack enough of the more professional features only available with cine cameras, be it digital or film.

Scarlet will be MUCH MORE of a game changer than Epic by a VERY LARGE margin, and its contribution to the industry as well as the nascent generation of film makers cannot be fully understood yet. I encourage RED not to underestimate the importance of this product and to put its development on a preferential path compared to EPIC. Bring on Scarlet RED team, and bring it on sooner rather than later!

 

[PatC]

Nothing is stopping the young film maker as proof of crank 2 and what they did with HDV.

For the big boys epic will be their choice, not scarlet(an opinion from a non red owner and I am speaking in generalities).

To me this sensor will change everything. I can't wait to see something like I have never seen it before.
NOTE: I AM ALSO INCREDIBLY EXCITED ABOUT SCARLET! So I don't want to look like a jerk response, but I think both epic and scarlet are equally important.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Just read on American Cinematographer that CRANK 2 was shot entirely on Canon HDV cameras, all shooting at glorious 1440 x 1080 resolution at 4:2:0 sampling and 8 bits. I thought the movie was originally planned for RED, but ultimately, these guys didn't even go for the better formats like XDCAM (some scenes were shot on an EX1, but very few) and opted for HDV recorded to tape!

Are you kidding? WTF would they do this? Weren't they concerned about color correction? They had a big budget didn't they? They had to with Jason Statham... makes no sense... EX1 at least!?! Why?

Well as I imagined the grabs on their Imdb (if those really are grabs) look great. But why not keep a little more info in the file to make sure you could match shots... I am very interested now to read more about why the chose to go this way.

 

[Darren Orange]

You can tell, however, the sky is almost always blown out at least on the trailer. It doesn't look half bad however.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Yea, but it is a look they obviously liked. I don't mind it. This movie moves so fast that you might not want to have tons of detail "distracting" you. Keep the viewer focused on the lead. Plus he is on some sort of intense drugs or something.

 

[Ryan Valle]

I've never seen Crank, but if its fast in a sense that there's a lot of motion in the pictures, then that may serve an issue on the HDV compression...

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Yea... I mean I don't know enough about this sort of thing to cover all the draw backs, but I am sure they looked at the options and chose what was best for them. This is not a small project. Look forward to seeing the film which I am sure will be great, and the BTS on the DVD as well. If someone finds a cool article pls share.

Yay for prosumer cameras! :beer:

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

just saw the trailer.. looked gooood actually. shows what a good story and creative shooting can do, regardless of medium

 

[Rudi Herbert]

They chose the HDV cameras because they wanted absolute mobility, they even came up with a Matrix style "bullet time" rig which is a 6 ft diameter semi circle made of aluminum that carries 8 of those cameras and weighs something like 25 lbs that they could hand hold and roller blade down the road with filming Statham while he ran! Budget was "only" 20 million, out of which I;m sure a good quarter of that just went to the star salary, but then again, I've seem amazing movies shot on film for less than 15 million...Nevertheless, the footage looks so MUCH better than it has any right to, that I can only wonder what a Scarlet would have produced...

 

[PatC]

Rudi, in HDVideopro there is also a good article on it. Showing the semi circle speed rail rig. The director is also good at rollerblading so he has a lot of following shots from rollerblades that he shot like hanging onto stuff...Jason Statham asked them where the camera was...hehe

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

they even came up with a Matrix style "bullet time" rig which is a 6 ft diameter semi circle made of aluminum that carries 8 of those cameras and weighs something like 25 lbs that they could hand hold and roller blade down the road with filming Statham while he ran!

N-I-C-E! Haha... I knew this would e good!

Budget was "only" 20 million

This actually makes it sound like this movie might be excellent. I don't mean to sound like I am some sort of authority and hope nobody ever assumes that, don't know why they would... but this sort of emphasis on content over quality makes me thing that this movie might be excellent. It is hard to make my point clear in a post, but when I say quality I only mean camera used... and not quality of the work! which is exactly my point... 4:2:0 would be a breeze to edit on any computer... the cost savings are DEEP... leaving money for talented crew, cast, script, days, etc... I am exited to watch this flick!!

Nevertheless, the footage looks so MUCH better than it has any right to, that I can only wonder what a Scarlet would have produced...

I am often flabbergasted when I see what some people squeeze out of HVX's with 35mm adapters... saving on equipment and post would be a very wise thing to do if it got you a fantastic DP and crew who understand how much of the work needed to be done up-front, on set. This film might become a banner for the indie community... emphasizing how much goes to execution over the camera.

Content, content, content.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I do believe that another mayor issue (disregarding size) for their style with RED was probably rolling shutter issues. Judging from the trailer I would never ever have shot that film on RED.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Good point, but wouldn't you say that if you shoot with Red 1, with a new build, at 2k, you would eliminate the issue to a point that 90% of the audience would never be able to notice it even if you told them about it?

I'd say it was more about keeping the crew small, equipment rentals small, post small and being able to burn through tapes like there is no tomorrow. I bet their schedule was SHORT.

I can't believe they shot with the A1, hehe... that is awesome. "The Crank: High Voltage film team uses Canon XH-A1 and the cheaper Canon HF10." I would love to see the HF10 projected too. I guess EX1 was also used, as previously mentioned on this thread. There is very little about the film on the www.

 

[Ryan Sims]

Crank 2 Trailer on 2K ChristieDigital DLP

Crank 2 Trailer on 2K ChristieDigital DLP

When I saw "Knowing" at the theater on a 2K ChristieDigital DLP, they just happen to show the trailer to Crank 2 as well. It looked good. The best look I've seen from a prosumer camera in a theater. It follows the same style as Crank. It made me want to go see it. Did it look as good as "Knowing", of course not. But I don't think the target audience cares. They could not have got the same action shots with a RED. You could not have mounted 8 REDs on speed-rail and handheld while rollerbladeing. It looks like the film was a blast to make, and that fun translates up on the screen.
Good job guys!


Disclamer: I choose to buy a Canon XH-A1 two years ago. It's serving me well till Scarlet comes out.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

A1's rock... sharp small and a zoom that holds speed :thumbsup:

of course 4:2:2 would be better but A1's rock

 

[Petr Dvorak]

Mark Neveldine tested Red "Acapulco" back in 2007 but it was probably too heavy
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3209&highlight=mark+neveldine

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I'm a firm believer that there always has been and there always will be different tools for different applications, and the same tools used for the same exact application by different people.

I have had my hands on just about every camera out there both Video, Film and Still cameras.

Even so I will personally own both Scarlets and Epic cameras in different sensor sizes, I have to agree with Rudi that Scarlet cameras will be definitely with out any doubt the GAME CHANGER in our industry of Cinema, in the Still industry still not sure as the specs, and their applications till I try for myself on Photoshoots.

The reason of the tremendous success that awaits Scarlet will be single ended the unprecedented quantity that this product will reach in sales, do to Pricing, Quality, Specs and size, literally just about every one will be able to afford a Fixed lens Scarlet or a Scarlet with interchangeable mounts and put on a Canon or Nikon or any other lens for that matter, at a very reasonable price, and they will be up and running.

There is a absolute need for more material out there, and yes likely there will be more bad movies then there are now, but there will finally be so much more material to choose from, and Filmmakers will be given the freedom to create in just about any budget, and bring just about any story to life.

ciao

 

[Roberto B]

Just read on American Cinematographer that CRANK 2 was shot entirely on Canon HDV cameras, all shooting at glorious 1440 x 1080 resolution at 4:2:0 sampling and 8 bits. I thought the movie was originally planned for RED, but ultimately, these guys didn't even go for the better formats like XDCAM (some scenes were shot on an EX1, but very few) and opted for HDV recorded to tape!

Last week, I saw a trailer for CRANK2 projected digitally, and besides the fact that the color grading and frantic pacing are not to my taste, the clips INDEED looked sharp on a big screen. Now, whether we like the particular look of this film or not, a case is to be made that SCARLET will take this approach to a very much improved next level. Imagine shooting on something that weighs almost the same as an HDV camera, but records RAW, 4:4:4 at up to 4K resolution with small primes to boot! RED1 is digital equivalent to a 35mm camera, but Scarlet will fill the void between that higher echelon and the current compressed HD formats that deliver enough resolution for the big screen but lack enough of the more professional features only available with cine cameras, be it digital or film.

Scarlet will be MUCH MORE of a game changer than Epic by a VERY LARGE margin, and its contribution to the industry as well as the nascent generation of film makers cannot be fully understood yet. I encourage RED not to underestimate the importance of this product and to put its development on a preferential path compared to EPIC. Bring on Scarlet RED team, and bring it on sooner rather than later!

someone who has understood the gang feelings at last.. :sifone:

 

[Joel Kaye]

How is "game change" defined? Seems like a lot of cameras might qualify.

RED REALLY changed the game IMHO.

I see Scarlet as the camera ahead of the real next game changer - which would be a small, interchangeable lens 35mm movie camera for $3k. Something the guys from Crank could have shot. That's the big game change in my mind.

Fixed lens Scarlet at 2/3" and F2.8 vs. EX1 at F/1.9 and 1/2" might be a pretty good fight - EX1 images are amazing. I bet RED kills the fixed lens Scarlet at NAB and offers a kit with body and zoom for $5500. I think that would make a lot of people happy and help RED sell more lenses. Scarlet at 2/3" and F/1.4 would really be a neat camera.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

How is "game change" defined? Seems like a lot of cameras might qualify.

RED REALLY changed the game IMHO.

I see Scarlet as the camera ahead of the real next game changer - which would be a small, interchangeable lens 35mm movie camera for $3k. Something the guys from Crank could have shot. That's the big game change in my mind.

Fixed lens Scarlet at 2/3" and F2.8 vs. EX1 at F/1.9 and 1/2" might be a pretty good fight - EX1 images are amazing. I bet RED kills the fixed lens Scarlet at NAB and offers a kit with body and zoom for $5500. I think that would make a lot of people happy and help RED sell more lenses. Scarlet at 2/3" and F/1.4 would really be a neat camera.

I sincerely hope not... Fixed Scarlet is the only one who fits my budget and I guess that's true to lots of other people.

RED already have lots of options for the people with large budgets, micro-budget people that can't live with rentals and need to own most of equipment need this camera.

I remember RED saying that they wanted Scarlet to be the student filmmaker dream camera... I just hope they still wanna do that.

Nothing is stopping the young film maker as proof of crank 2 and what they did with HDV.

For the big boys epic will be their choice, not scarlet(an opinion from a non red owner and I am speaking in generalities).

To me this sensor will change everything. I can't wait to see something like I have never seen it before.
NOTE: I AM ALSO INCREDIBLY EXCITED ABOUT SCARLET! So I don't want to look like a jerk response, but I think both epic and scarlet are equally important.

I don't think this utterly expensive sensor will change everything.

Another great high-end product...