Could someone tell me how or where I can learn all about film making?

[jdoe]

Can someone tell me how or where I can learn all about film making?

I am not persuaded to go to film school or some other classes really for a number of reasons that I believe to be reasonable.

I am motivated towards this and want to really learn a lot and in depth so that I can have a real grasp of it. Especially because I plan to spend a bunch of money on equipment and want to make the right decisions.

Here is where I am at so far:

Going to get an HP desktop with an i7 processor.

Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe after effects. Unless Final Cut Pro is way better in which case I would also get a Mac?

The Cam is the next step. I've looked at Canon, Sony, JVC, others, and now RED. Still trying to figure out which is the best for price and quality?

SO... are there books even textbooks that film schools use, or websites, or forums, or something else wherein I could solidly in depth educate myself? This is kind of hard because on some sites you only get partial shallow information and also when I look at some books I am not sure they are all that good and if I did find an in depth book I am not sure if its the best.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I am motivated towards this and want to really learn a lot and in depth so that I can have a real grasp of it. Especially because I plan to spend a bunch of money on equipment

ouch... not a good idea

buy a cheap camera.. use a basic piece of editing gear and see if you can make a decent short film first..

expensive equipment doesnt make you a film maker..

 

[A. Bastaki]

john doe.. ure everywhere. lol... relax buddy.

 

[Shawn R]

You've got to be joking? You are right.

 

[Thomas Koch]

Where are you located? You should look around for local productions and go help them out. you will learn a lot by working on other people's projects. You can also read my blog and listen to my podcasts!

 

[Alex Carr]

You must a great deal of ambition and Drive to be successful without Schooling.

Go to school so you can make the Right decisions. If this is really what you want spend that money on School.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Read everything. Literally. I'm not kidding. The information isn't in one book, or three books, it's in fifty or more books, dozens of magazines and websites, plus comes from hours and hours of personal contact with experts, not to mention all the hands-on time spent.

You should see my bookshelves...

As for the camera and editing set-up, use whatever is cheap enough to let you shoot often, using a camera with manual settings.

But there is no single source for knowledge out there, so I'm not sure it's a good idea to avoid standardized classroom education any more than you can rely on it solely either. I'm more or less an autodidact myself, yet I ultimately decided to go to film school when I was 26 because I didn't have a clue as to how to break into the business, I just had all this self-taught knowledge. What I needed was the personal contacts to help me find jobs after graduation, and I needed to learn how to work with others. So ultimately film school was worth it for me.

 

[M Most]

I'm more or less an autodidact myself, yet I ultimately decided to go to film school when I was 26 because I didn't have a clue as to how to break into the business, I just had all this self-taught knowledge. What I needed was the personal contacts to help me find jobs after graduation, and I needed to learn how to work with others. So ultimately film school was worth it for me.

My friend David is being very modest here. The fact is that he is practically a walking encyclopedia of film history, and a lifelong student of the arts. His technical skills are formidable, but what makes him an artist is his depth of understanding of the visual arts that comes not only from his own experience and experimentation, but by intimate knowledge of what has been done before. And that doesn't simply mean motion pictures, it means all works of art - photography, paintings, music, and many other things. It's the artist in David that defines him, not the technical expertise. The technical stuff is the easy part.

 

[Eric S.]

It's the artist in David that defines him, not the technical expertise. The technical stuff is the easy part.

I definitely agree with the sentiment of your post, but I'd probably characterize the technical learning as something different than "easy." Easy is sitting on my chair on the beach drinking a piña colada. As I'm sure we can all attest to, mastering the technical know-how of cinematography takes time, commitment, and ingenuity. That technical knowledge can then serve as the language for our artistry. Channeling the artistry, of course, is another topic altogether.

I just don't want to reinforce JDoe's assumption that there's one "Cinematography for Dummies" textbook that will facilitate quick and easy mastery of the field. Learning this stuff is definitely doable (heck, I'm proof of that), but isn't effortless. At least not for me.

You've received a ton of great advice, JDoe. Good luck digesting it!

 

[Andrew Wilding]

Read everything and anything. Books. Internet. Magazine. I think skipping film-school is just fine. I have no desire to go and am completely autodidactic. If you watch a bunch of films, really watch them, for camera placement, lighting, editing, etc, there is nothing you cant pick up. Watching films and experimenting with a stills camera are all you need. I find that the technical aspects of film making have been blown far out of proportion, likely to keep new people out of it and keep old jobs safe. The technical side can be be learned on ones own in several months. The rest of it, the art of it, comes from within and is the product of a life time.

All of that is merely my opinion, of course.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Read everything and anything. Books. Internet. Magazine. I think skipping film-school is just fine. I have no desire to go and am completely autodidactic. If you watch a bunch of films, really watch them, for camera placement, lighting, editing, etc, there is nothing you cant pick up. Watching films and experimenting with a stills camera are all you need. I find that the technical aspects of film making have been blown far out of proportion, likely to keep new people out of it and keep old jobs safe. The technical side can be be learned on ones own in several months. The rest of it, the art of it, comes from within and is the product of a life time.

All of that is merely my opinion, of course.

I think the technical side is overemphasized, but not by professional people trying to keep old jobs safe by keeping new people out... but mostly by young people who become overly obsessed with technology.

Director Alexander Mackendrick ("Sweet Smell of Success", "The Ladykillers", "The Man in the White Suit") taught at CalArts when I was there and once said that filmmakers become obsessed with technical problems as a way of avoiding human problems. Because technology is inherently seductive and easier to deal with than people. In fact, one of the reasons he set up a directors program at CalArts that was a joint venture with the theater department was that he felt that most film schools forgot to teach directors about actors and acting.

But in terms of the industry, most professionals I have dealt with have been forthcoming about what they know, there has been very little jealous guarding of secrets or any attempt to make the job seem more complicated than it really is. Because they are not threatened by people with technical knowledge -- that's only a small part of why they get hired for a job anyway. We can all know the same things technically but it doesn't mean we'll go out and shoot a scene in the same way.

While I do think a lot of filmmaking is naturally self-taught, one aspect you cannot learn completely on your own is how to work with other people, and if you plan on being a cinematographer, how to work with directors. Most filmmaking except on the smallest of scales is a communal effort involving collaboration of different artists of different temperaments.

But I agree with the sentiments once expressed by Stanley Kubrick and John Boorman in a conversation that the fundamentals of filmmaking are not that hard to learn. However, the devil is in the details.

The key to learning is to keep a perspective, to always keep in mind the practical application of knowledge in pursuit of a creative idea.

 

[Dan Hudgins]

making movies

making movies

Can someone tell me how...

If you are serious I can tell you what you need/can to do to make independent 35mm movies.

If you are not serious don't bother me or for that mater anyone else.

If you are indeed serious e-mail me and I will let you know what developments I have with my DI system, I plan on adding some things that will help make making films at low cost much easer. For now there is most of what is needed already.

Making a movie is getting a 88minute 35mm print with sound on it that can be projected. If it is good enough it will get the distribution it deserves. Your chance of success is maybe 1 in 10000 on average.

Hopefully with images in the frames that have a resolution of 1280x720 or better and so be equal to average 35mm color prints as projected.

Good audio and music take a year to finish, my system has the tracks needed to construct a complex sound track using maybe 100,000 or more sound elements.

As for the story, editing plan, and such I can tell you how to study films of the masters to learn what underlaying structure there is.

You are free to adopt or ignore anything I tell you about, but since I have already made most of the mistakes, you would do better to pay attention.

Frankly I am sick of people who say they want to make movies, when what they mean is I want to be paid to play with people. Making movies, especially producing and directing is one of the hardest things anyone can do if you want to get a result that is on par with what an audience expects.

Before you start anything ask yourself this question: "Would I go see this movie if I did not make it?"

Help is here is you want it, but be BS free. Anyone who wants to make movies with their own money needs to be more than a little nuts, and anyone that expects to make movies with other peoples money maybe even more so. Very few people can get "investors" in something that will almost certainly never make a dime.

I have been making an offer to produce a 35mm film, supply the cameras, film, and such and the other would supply the actors, sets, and locations, for several years to have some test footage to work with in developing my system. So far I can't find anyone who wants to put-up or shut-up. If someone whats to learn hands on 35mm filmmaking, they can contact me, in the cource of shooting the film they should learn how to operate everything needed to make their own films.

 

[Joe G.]

"

Question making movies
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoe View Post
Can someone tell me how...
If you are serious I can tell you what you need/can to do to make independent 35mm movies.

If you are not serious don't bother me or for that mater anyone else.

If you are indeed serious e-mail me and I will let you know what developments I have with my DI system, I plan on adding some things that will help make making films at low cost much easer. For now there is most of what is needed already.

Making a movie is getting a 88minute 35mm print with sound on it that can be projected. If it is good enough it will get the distribution it deserves. Your chance of success is maybe 1 in 10000 on average.

Hopefully with images in the frames that have a resolution of 1280x720 or better and so be equal to average 35mm color prints as projected.

Go audio and music take a year to finish, my system has the tracks needed to construct a complex sound track using maybe 100,000 or more sound elements.

As for the story, editing plan, and such I can tell you how to study films of the masters to learn what underlaying structure there is.

You are free to adopt or ignore anything I tell you about, but since I have already made most of the mistakes, you would do better to pay attention.

Frankly I am sick of people who say they want to make movies, when what they mean is I want to be paid to play with people. Making movies, especially producing and directing is one of the hardest things anyone can do if you want to get a result that is on par with what an audience expects.

Before you start anything ask yourself this question: "Would I go see this movie if I did not make it?"

Help is here is you want it, but be BS free. Anyone who wants to make movies with their own money needs to be more than a little nuts, and anyone that expects to make movies with other peoples money maybe even more so. Very few people can get "investors" in something that will almost certainly never make a dime.

I have been making an offer to produce a 35mm film, supply the cameras, film, and such and the other would supply the actors, sets, and locations for several years to have some test footage to work with in developing my system."

Not sure I understand that quote. I'm trying to get a film put together, but I don't have access to locations for "several years" for testing. Did you mean something else?

 

[Shawn Booth]

Read everything and anything. Books. Internet. Magazine. I think skipping film-school is just fine. I have no desire to go and am completely autodidactic. If you watch a bunch of films, really watch them, for camera placement, lighting, editing, etc, there is nothing you cant pick up. Watching films and experimenting with a stills camera are all you need. I find that the technical aspects of film making have been blown far out of proportion, likely to keep new people out of it and keep old jobs safe. The technical side can be be learned on ones own in several months. The rest of it, the art of it, comes from within and is the product of a life time.

All of that is merely my opinion, of course.

I'd like to add - work on as many productions as possible, grow thick skin, go to as many museums, look at as much art as you can. Study art. Pay attention when out in public to how people interact with each other, how they speak to one another, how natural light changes a location just by the time of day....

Learn how to tell a good story.

There isn't a short cut or a finite list.

But you have to live it, devote yourself to it. It's kinda like marriage (from what I understand). The filmmaking lifestyle turns out to not be for everyone...

And zero in on what it is you want to do.

 

[Andrew Wilding]

I think the technical side is overemphasized, but not by professional people trying to keep old jobs safe by keeping new people out... but mostly by young people who become overly obsessed with technology. .......

But in terms of the industry, most professionals I have dealt with have been forthcoming about what they know, there has been very little jealous guarding of secrets or any attempt to make the job seem more complicated than it really is. Because they are not threatened by people with technical knowledge -- that's only a small part of why they get hired for a job anyway. We can all know the same things technically but it doesn't mean we'll go out and shoot a scene in the same way.

I agree completely and didn't make myself very clear (as usual!) - Anyone working within the industry is likely confident enough in themselves and their abilities to not rely on bluster or deception to hype their importance - but there are many people on the fringes of the industry who want to make what they do sound more daunting. As someone who is themselves outside of the industry, I run in to these types quite frequently. I also found this when I was a musician and (poor) sound engineer - the "art" of keeping a signal from peaking was surrounded by a lot of unnecessary technical hogwash. You find the same thing in photography, I find. Any top tier fashion photographer will likely tell you that their work is largely in dealing with the models and carrying a vision through to the final product, but strike up a conversation with the average wedding photographer and they are likely to make getting a decent exposure sound like some arcane black art that cant be understood by mere mortals.

No doubt schools can be a great place to learn to work with people - you are constantly forced into situations where you haven't any other choice. For me though, the choice was clear - better to spend the would-be tuition money on equipment and then force myself into those same situations that schooling would have fostered. For me, this was an easy choice. But I am someone who didn't graduate high school (so excuse my typos, friends) and preferred to self-educate. This has everything to do with how you learn, how much drive you have, etc etc. There is no one right path that will serve everyone. And education is a life long process!

 

[Dan Hudgins]

something else

something else

Did you mean something else?

I added another comma, I ment that I have been talking to people for several years, one would think the principle shooting could be done in 30 to 90 days depending if it is is 24/7 or just weekends... ancillary shooting and re-shoots could drag on, it depends on how things go and what needs to be fixed as editing progresses, right?

None of the people I have had respond wants to shoot 35mm film, nor do they want to put the work into getting something worth shooting in front of the camera.

What goes in front of the camera is more important than what camera you shoot it with as long as you get up to some minimum quality. Having a good script and good actors and locations that have good light and such are more important than what camera you shoot with.

Maybe bad actors without sets would look better on RED than mini-DV, but some may think its the other way around.

I am interested in dramatic feature film production, are you interested in documentary filmmaking, that is off my chart.

==

Why do you want to be a filmmaker, what do you have to say other than give me $12?

You can work out how long things take with a calculator by making a 3 minute film then multiply by 88/3 then times that by at least 4 or more if you did not get your goal quality in the 3 minute film. Say it takes 3 weeks to make a 3 minute film start to finish, then 88/3=29.33*3weeks=88weeks then times that by 4 and you get 352weeks or 6.7years. Why times 4, because I know filmmakers that say in the end things take about four times as long as you think they should for your first film, so just for safety get ready for a long treck.

 

[Albert Cheng]

Work as a PA

Work as a PA

I highly recommend you work as a PA on a few big films first. It's not too hard to get this position and once you do, you will make many contacts. You will gain a couple of important things from this:

1. How the physical aspect of movies are made and what roles people play

2. The many types of people and personalities you will be working with both good and bad

3. How to be effective on a film set, learn some etiquette, and how to not get into peoples way

4. How monotonous and boring shooting a movie can really be. Lots and lots of standing around and waiting, with bursts of intense activities.

5. Excruciating work conditions which include obnoxious work hours, and guaranteed utter exhaustion at the end of the day. But most significantly, how intensely stressful it can get...more than you've probably ever felt (depending on your position and responsibility)

6. How movie magic happens mostly in the theaters and only rarely on the set

7. How monotonous and boring shooting a movie can really be.


Anyone care to add?

Seriously, be a PA and immerse yourself into what you plan on getting into so you have a better idea what filmmaking is really about.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Jdoe,

Keep in mind, when we take knowledge correctly, the more we learn, the more we should realize we don't know. When we think we have all the answers, our learning stops - and others in their profession who continue to learn simply pass us by. You've never really "arrived", you simply pass milestones along your professional journey. The motion media industry is dynamic, never static - so to survive and thrive in it we must also be dynamic and proactive in our approach to it.

Books, schools, boot camps, seminars, web sites, etc are necessary ingredients in the learning curve - but there is no substitute for the practical application of spending tons of hours per week actually doing the specific tasks involved with your chosen occupation (s) within the industry.

This is a diverse industry. There are many genres, techniques, and styles. All of them are valid for their intended goal - to bring entertainment, education, or marketing materials to the viewing public. Features and narrative cinema are but one portion of this industry.

Four "T's" can enable (but never assure) success in this industry: Talent (you're born with this, you don't learn it), Technology (you need tools to do your work), Training (hands-on experience, books, schools, seminars, expos, web sites), and Tenacity (you must learn to have this if you want to succeed)

Being a "jack of all trades and a master of none" can be as bad financially as being a "narrow-niche specialist who learns more and more about less and less - until they know everything about nothing". IMO being a "jack of many trades and a master of each of them" is the most fulfilling professional strategy - and quite often the best fiscal decision.

Show me someone who works at something they love, and I'll show you a happy person, who will do their best work. Figure out what you love to do in your time off - then figure out a way to make a living at it. There are many niches, genres, and styles within this diversified industry to match up with just about anyone's lifestyle and interests. Choose your area of the industry wisely, to match your lifestyle, and then your passion will be in your work - and it will definitely show in your end results. Don't be like James Thurber's character Walter Mitty, who spent his life in situations he wasn't happy with - all the while regularly daydreaming about being somewhere else and doing something else!

Respect is a 2-way street - we all should give respect and expect respect. Nobody in this industry - or any other - was born knowing anything. We were all beginners at one point, and if we've been successful in this industry we've probably followed most, if not all, of the principles I've outlined in this post.

Lastly, people definitely tend to work well with other people they like. If they don't like others in their sphere, they usually quit, fire them, or suffer in silence. When you find a good team of associates, stick with them as much as possible - like you would a good doctor or dentist. Your professional life will be much more enjoyable - and your work will be commensurately better.

I hope this insight will help shorten your learning curve and get you to where you want to go... and remember, this isn't a destination - it's a journey. Enjoy it...

 

[Tyler Black]

You've gotten candid advice from many people that have asked the same question when they started out that you have asked. "Where can I learn all about filmmaking?" I'll bet more than one of them was given the same advice that you have been given here. My advice to you is the same as theirs; either go to film school or read everything you can and experiment with relatively inexpensive equipment until you're ready to move up. If you really love this business and can't think of anything else you'd rather do, your chances of success are great. And I say you'll be successful because I mean every day you do your job you will love it and enjoy doing it. I just wrapped a movie where one day we worked 20 1/2 hours. I'll bet most people in this business can say the same and longer. And when the day wrapped, the lead actor and I smiled at each other and said "I could have gone another 4 hours."

I'm going to throw a ballpark number out there that everyone here can disagree with if they want, but if you're the person I've described above, it will take you roughly 10 years to get to a point in your career where you may feel you are "successful." I think you're WAY too young in your knowledge to spend a shit-ton of money on a bunch of equipment you don't know how to use (unless you've hit the lottery and have money to burn. Then you'll have a ball and learn at the same time... who cares if you make a living or are good?) But if you're like everyone else that has survived this business, it takes time and a lot of hard work.

 

[Frank Weeks]

Jdoe,

Keep in mind, when we take knowledge correctly, the more we learn, the more we should realize we don't know. When we think we have all the answers, our learning stops - and others in their profession who continue to learn simply pass us by. You've never really "arrived", you simply pass milestones along your professional journey. The motion media industry is dynamic, never static - so to survive and thrive in it we must also be dynamic and proactive in our approach to it.
.

Dead on Steve.

For me it's gone from 3/4" umatic (80's)to a camera that seems to evolve on a dally basic. Reel to reel editing to non linear. Expensive DVEs and CGs to readily available software programs. To stand still is to fall behind.

The only thing that hasn't changed is the creative vision and stubborn determination needed to survive in this profession. If you really want to make it in this business you will live and sleep it. You've already received some great advice from knowledgeable pros. Use it and good luck.