COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF EPIC-X/EPIC-M

[Mark Toia]

Hopefully not. We were promised that Epic-X stage II will be released this Summer and many of us are counting on that. I am going to take JIM's words as fact until i hear otherwise but I'm financially planning for this Summer. I'll be pretty upset if it goes longer and I imagine most other stage II buyers will be as well. If Red can't get all 18 parts together in time maybe they should consider machining those parts to satisfy their core customer base. Just sayin'

Hey. I hear ya man!.

Even if (a Big if) Epic (x) comes out in summer. Do you really think RED are going to be coming out in force with Epics and more the question, parts, drives, batteries, Evfs, side grips, redmotes, etc...
They will dribble out as did the Red one. As did old , as did cards. As did drives, as did MX Upgrades ....

I'm telling you mate. Go the Epic "M" now I'f you have a place. They only hold it for 10 days.
It's the best camera in the world today. Even with some of it's functions not turned on. But!!!! If you have no work for it. Then Why!?!?...


That all said. I'd love to be proved wrong because I need another 3 Epics quicksmart. (and the "epic M" I payed for a month ago.)

 

[Imran Farouk]

Hopefully not. We were promised that Epic-X stage II will be released this Summer and many of us are counting on that. I am going to take JIM's words as fact until i hear otherwise but I'm financially planning for this Summer. I'll be pretty upset if it goes longer and I imagine most other stage II buyers will be as well. If Red can't get all 18 parts together in time maybe they should consider machining those parts to satisfy their core customer base. Just sayin'

Well Jarred said in that canon thread that they were shipping out the canon mount late June...
So I'm going to assume then that they will be shipping X around then too, I mean it could just be like the rest of the accessories...but let's hope not

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff, you have access to other "M" owners. What are some of the projects these guys are undertaking that you or then can't possibly do with the Red One in the context that the $10-20,000 premium is worth it to have an "M" now, two-three months before the "X" is released (yes, that may be too hopefull, but that's the latest skuttlebutt).

It all comes down to individual needs, but EPIC does quite a few things that RED One MX does not. 5K, lower compression ratios, higher frame rates and up to 120fps at 5K, HDRx with up to 6 stops of highlight protection, it can be configured as a much smaller system, to name a few.

For most of the M owners I do talk to, which really isn't that many, maybe 5 or 6 total... There wasn't much hesitation over getting the M. They could use it NOW, so they bought it NOW. Most of us in the M crowd view the fact that a discounted Stage-2 Epic-X in our future is just icing on the cake.

There are also some trade-offs with the M's right now. Not all the features, modes, frame rates, etc.. are enabled just yet. So with that considered, the M really is not for everyone, even if they do have the finances to buy one. M does have some advantages too, other than being here now. Such as the 2 year warranty.

$10-$20,000 permium now for a 6 month head start makes sense for me. It doesn't for a 30-60 day head start.

At this point, I don't think buying an M would qualify as a head start. There are at least a few M's in the all the major US markets now several in in LA/Hollywood and NYC. As far as I know, Meryem Ersoz and myself are the first two M's in Colorado. If your general client base is not asking for an MX RED One over a regular Mysterium RED One, let alone asking about EPIC, then there probably isn't much reason for you to pay the premium now. Not unless you can use the extra features and abilities that the EPIC will offer to immediately benefit your business. Since posting my thread here on reduser about booking EPIC-M rentals, I've had a total of 7 inquiries and only two of them have been legit or worth considering. So on that note, I'm glad that I didn't buy the M on the hope of renting it out.

If it comes down to a premium cost vs. timing thing, it's a gamble. At this point RED can't even put a firm date on EPIC-X production. It seems as if they have located suppliers for the necessary parts, but I know that manufacturing costs are up in the face of the Japan disaster and time on manufacturing lines is going to those with the largest orders and fattest wallets. Jim / RED could no doubt pay the premium to get the parts -- that's what they're doing to build the M cameras. But everything must align financially and at the right level of quality to produce EPIC-X and keep it close to the originally advertised price point.

 

[Rick Darge]

I thought the reason why Red decided to build M in the first place was because they were having a difficult time getting all the parts ready. This was months before Japan...

 

[Mark Toia]

At the end of day Red are trying there hardest to please all.
I'd hate to be in the position they are in.
What a stress!

 

[Tim Duran]

Mark, Red doesn't "promise" anything. Regardless of how nice the staff is and how willing they are to help, the only thing you can count on is not to count on Red's projections. And remember, "summer" ends September 21 or so. And if X is distributed as One's were, you can add another six + months to that. And I know that Red never answered the questions as to who gets their X's first: Those with the lowest One numbers or those who put their deposits in first. I have a low-ish One number, but waited until the last minute to put in my deposit. So what does that mean? Where am I in line?

 

[Adam C Lubkin]

Mark, Red doesn't "promise" anything. Regardless of how nice the staff is and how willing they are to help, the only thing you can count on is not to count on Red's projections. And remember, "summer" ends September 21 or so. And if X is distributed as One's were, you can add another six + months to that. And I know that Red never answered the questions as to who gets their X's first: Those with the lowest One numbers or those who put their deposits in first. I have a low-ish One number, but waited until the last minute to put in my deposit. So what does that mean? Where am I in line?

I don't have access to the quote, but it was stated back then that as long as you got your deposit in by the deadline then it didn't matter - it would still go by original serial #/delivery date.

 

[Brandon Fraley]

I don't have access to the quote, but it was stated back then that as long as you got your deposit in by the deadline then it didn't matter - it would still go by original serial #/delivery date.

everything subject to change, but I believe I remember that quote as well.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

this is how I remember it also. I actually made my deposit for epic while sitting in the reducation class in vegas through my phone the minute i heard deposits were being taken, not that it will buy me anything extra but at least i was in, heh heh.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Stage-2 is going to go in the order of original RED One delivery date. Or at least that is how they will notify everyone in groups. Then you have 30 days to send in your money. So those who have their money on account with RED when they get their notification will see quicker turn-around and ship than those who have to send in their money at that point. Just as it has been with all other things RED...

I expect the EPIC-X production to move FAST! RED is pumping out hand-built EPIC-M cameras faster than they produced RED Ones in the early days. And they have a fully automated assembly line to crank out EPIC-X.

As for EPIC-M. They were originally to be the first 100 or so cameras built while the EPIC-X production line was tooled up and they looked like a good opportunity to not only get an EPIC early, but to own a collector's item. Then RED said they would make a few more because tooling was taking a bit longer. Then Japan's incident... By NAB, the decision was reached to open up M orders to all RED owners (put in your online inquiry and apply for one if you want). I think they were giving Stage-2 reservation holders priority at this point. But RED is now going to make M's for as long as people want to buy them. When the X cameras start shipping, the demand for M should drop. Even though M is machined and final assembly is done by hand, you won't be able to tell the difference in the body between an M and an X if they were sitting side by side. You would have to flip them over and look at the label. Of course, X cameras won't come standard with the titanium PL mount.. But those machined body panels, once tumbled and painted don't look any different than the cast ones.

 

[Tim Duran]

Guys, thanks for the reminder on who goes to the front of the line.

 

[Harcharan Singh]

Hi,
There are two scenarios here :
(from a rental house perspective)
Scenario 1
-------------

IF Red Starts delivering EPIX -X by June 2011 then buying an EPIC-M defies logic. Further if you have an RED ONE MX you will be killing some portion of your own market .You may have to rent out the EPIC at the same rate as RED MX for a start or maybe you can charge a 10-15% extra for EPIC-M. But in the meantime one of your R1-MX will be sitting idle or you have to reduce its rental.
Further to recover the extra $$$ will not be possible as you will be getting the X in 3 months time .( I have discussed with quite a few production houses regarding EPIC with an extra rental of 15% over R1 MX but they are were not very excited about it)

SCENARIO II
----------------
IF Red DOSN'T start delivering EPIC-X from June and the STAGE II and STAGE III guys are not clear on delivery schedule then also as a rental house the scenario I theory also holds good. But if someone else is renting out EPIC in your country and you are loosing business then going for EPIC-M make sense because then your R1 rates will come down drastically. But since EPIC-M's are also being
delivered at a slow pace I do not see this scenario arising.

So lets wait for June 2011 and hope for the best from the RED team.....

Harcharan