Cooke 18-100 questions..

[Andrew Bissonnette]

Hey, I have a few questions on the Cooke 18-100, can't find this info anywhere..:

- How many generations of this lens are there? I know it was sort of an update to the 20-100, but I have seen MkII and possibly even MkIII 18-100's.

- What are the differences between the generations? T3.1, T3?

- Finally, a more general question and I believe I know the answer.. Would 15mm LW or Studio rods be a good idea for lens support on the 18-100? Or is 19mm Studio the only way to go for 12lbs / 12.5" worth of glass? I'm basically trying to gauge how well of a handheld lens this could or couldn't be.. On the Alexa Mini.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Nick Gardner]

100mm studio would be fine, LWS won't work. Awful hand held lens on anything. Particularly a mini. Way to front heavy.

NIck

 

[Andrew Bissonnette]

Thanks Nick, I figured that much.

 

[jordan levy]

i dont think their is a mark one or mark two version but i believe there were just improvements on the mechanics in the later serial numbers.
cant use a light weight set up, its large and heavy lens and you would never want to do handheld with it, you need a 6x6 mattebox and full studio support.
but it is my favorite vintage zoom.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

I don't know about any "official" versions, I suspect that Jordan is correct that there were small improvements in mechanics and coatings in later models. You can't use 15mm LWS, the lens is too large in diameter to work with that, but 15mm Studio support works just fine, I use it all the time. It's a heavy lens, but nowhere near as heavy as a 10x Angenieux zoom, so I generally use a Wooden Camera lens support with the 18-100. And I use mine with a Bright Tangerine VIV 4x5.65 mattebox, which also works just fine. You might see a tiny bit of it at 18mm, but you don't need a 6x6 for this lens.

 

[Simon_G]

I have been looking around about this lens, that it can be adapted to EF Mount.

Has anyone had experience with that and has pictures at all?

I found a few renters that say it's available to rent with a EF mount.
But have yet to see it in action anywhere.

 

[Simon_G]

https://losangeles.sharegrid.com/en/listings/355-cooke-18-100mm-t3-pl-or-ef-mount

https://kitsplit.com/rent/cooke-18-100mm-t3-1-2-4-new-york-ny

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

Simon, most Cooke 18-100mm, like the older yet gorgeous 20-100 and other zooms of the same era,
uses the Universal Mount system so it's quite easy to source a swappable Canon EF Mount for the UM system to replace the existing PL Mount.

If your support system is STRONG and stable (19mm with a HQ 3/8" 16 bracket), you could also use an EF to PL adapter if the PL mount is quite "thin".

Hope it helps!

 

[Simon_G]

Oh wow Tommaso! Thanks mate, yeah I couldn't seem to find much information online, but I guess these beauties came out pre-internet!
So Universal Mount, I get you. There is a thread that takes the PL off and can be swapped for a UM mount to EF. Which would be more ideal. Yes, good support system for sure. See I was concerned that the rear element might not have enough clearance, does the back element move towards sensor going through thr zoom range?

So you like the 20-100mm more? I am loving the image examples I have found in general. Blowing my mind more the rough prices I have been seeing, I was aiming for the new LWZ which is close in price.

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

You're welcome!

Rear element is not protruding outside the EF mount.

I like the 20-100 more yes.

20-100 prices nowadays are a steal, 18-100 is a different thing but it's a gorgeous zoom too and slightly more modern.

I don't like LWZ zooms, at all...but it's my personal taste, LWZs are very good zooms optically.

 

[Roman Chalupnik AAC]

Coincidentally I would have two universal mounts with EF ending .. they would fit on any Cooke zoom lenses 250-25,18-100,20-60 and so on but of course the lens would need support .

 

[Simon_G]

Wow, I just noticed the price of the 20-100 is much less then the 18-100. So something for me to read more about now!

I am thinking something like this for my first true cinema lens would be pretty nice. Any recommendations for where to look for the EF ending?
Duclos used to, but must have stopped making them as they are sold out. I do need to do more diggin.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Some things to consider about the 20-100 and 18-100....

The 18-100 is newer and nicer, also more expensive. There were a few iterations or improvements over its life cycle, but nothing earth shattering. The last edition to be produced was the Cooke Classic edition. I owned one of those and sold it a few years back, beautiful lens. The overall construction on the 18-100 is very good and they are easy to maintain. They can still hang with modern glass just fine, but do have a bit of a vintage look to the image. The lens is designed to cover 35mm Academy format, so it vignettes noticeably on S35. Many people really like the look. There is a porthole effect or actual corner clipping on the 6K Dragon sensor, is fine at 5.5K and should be good on 8K Helium although I have not shot with one on Helium.

I recommend 19mm studio rod setup as 15mm studio/offset should be left in the past where it belongs with its offset for film mags. 15mm LW setups don't work with the lens as they don't really give adequate clearance for a follow focus or other lens controls. However they can be made to work.

It weighs over 12lbs and while making for an overall heavy rig, it was workable as a shoulder-mount setup with the RED One or other heavy camera attached to it. With the newer DSMC[2] bodies, you're effectively left trying to wrangle a big leans with an oversized lens cap... It's actually not bad for some setups, but too front/lens heavy for a shoulder rig unless you add a ton of extra weight to the rear in the form of batteries or just dead weight. I've actually run it handheld with two handle grips -- mounted to rods on each side -- and positioned where needed to balance the setup. Combine that with a forward-protruding top handle and it can work in some situations. All things considered, those are not setups I recommend, but rather setups cobbled together out of necessity at the time.

Many of these lenses have been around a long time and have seen a lot of use. I would recommend having them checked by a trusted third party/ lens technician or yourself before purchasing. I've seen several that have long lost their coatings on the front elements or other little quirks that go along with old glass. Nothing bad that specifically pertains to the lens itself, just the reality of what happens when lenses get used 100 thousand times as part of a general rental fleet.

No experience here with re-mounting to a universal mount or EF conversion. The PL mount is easy to service and shim though. If you find a proper 18-100 kit, it should include both imperial and metric marked rings and a few shims. Those are a bit hard to come by now if they're not included.

 

[Simon_G]

Thanks for the detail Jeff.

I am still a baby to cinema lenses and rigs.

Using a C100 and Raven.
I already have alot of EF still lenses, but dang some nice stuff in PL.

So having the slightly smaller then s35 sensor might go alright for the Cooke.
I saw Toia was trying to ditch a Classic not long ago, it looked very well looked after.

 

[Roman Chalupnik AAC]

Cooke Zoom Universal - EF mount

Cooke Zoom Universal - EF mount

Here the universal with EF mount ....

 

[Ilya O.]

Here you are Cookie lovers!

Revolutionary Cooke Varotal 20-100mm f2.8 datasheet from the NIKFI Lens Test BOOK of 1978 with all the plots of resolution, vignetting, spectral transmission, image shift, CA, astigmatism and main optical data:

And here is the famous 35OPF18-1 20-120 f2.5 lens graphs, a USSR zoom calculation based on the above Cooke's design:

[LOMO OPF18-1 20-120mm Datasheet]

 

[Ilya O.]

A bit off-topic but I can not resist to publish a couple more Cooke Varotal contenders of the late 1970-s, maybe someone is choosing the vintage zoom and does not know that Cooke was not the only one in 5x range that days.

So, first is hell rare Oberkochen Opton Vario-So (Sonnar) 22-110mm f2 T2.7 zoom lens.

Here's the datasheet taken from NIKFI Lens Test Book of 1978th:

Oberkochen Opton Vario-So 22-110mm f2 zoom lens data: resolution, vignetting, spectral transmission, image shift, CA, astigmatism and main optical data.

Second, is Canon K-35 Macro Zoom K5x25 25-120mm f2.5 T3.1:

Canon K-35 Macro Zoom resolution, vignetting, spectral transmission, image shift, CA, astigmatism and main optical data.