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Convince Me Not To Record Sound In Camera

E

Erick Stoll

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I'm shooting a short next week on the Red. All conveniences point to recording sound on the Red, after going through a mixer of course.

Tell me why I shouldn't!
 
If you are going through a mixer, you might as well go double system.
 
no reason not too... i do it all the time
 
I'd avoid it. Leave the camera to record pictures and the sound recordist to do their job. I find the probability of something going awry much smaller when sound is being taken care of elsewhere - but that's just my 2c.
 
There is no reason to. It is very convenient not to. If you record line level in through a good mixer you will get excellent sound.

Just an alternative perspective.
 
Erick Stoll said:
I'm shooting a short next week on the Red. All conveniences point to recording sound on the Red, after going through a mixer of course.

Tell me why I shouldn't!
Click to expand...

Because the sound mixer can't confirm either the levels or the sync on the camera since he doesn't have control over it. He does have control, as well as confidence playback, on his own recorder.
 
on the other hand, audio is a bitch, you can bang ure bitch in post. but that's a bitch.
 
I won't be of any help in convincing you, since we do it all the time, both directly from mics and through a mixer. Though in the past, we've had level issues when going through a mixer, but that seems to be better now.

Not having to sync audio in post is well worth it, as we have very fast turn around requirements for many of our projects.
 
when i first started using thy red, i went ahead with a mixpre, and fed the red a line in audio signal.

things went smoothly and nicely. i used a headphone, and the mixer dude used one. so we communicated and got things where we wanted em to be.

so, since ure doing a short film.. ala indy style, then just feed the audio into the red... its way easier for post.
 
Both methods can work well. I believe that double audio has the potential to be better, but on-camera audio can be decent too if done correctly. My recommendation is to follow the advice that your audio mixer gives you, based upon his own experience and equipment. We don't have the advantage of actually having to do the work, so our advice is less valuable.
 
Do both. Have him record off camera and wirelessly transmit a mix to the camera. Cut with the embedded tracks and finish with the off camera tracks. The added cost of the transmitter is non-existent, and a good mixer will see the benefits and manage to do it easily. You can cut right away with a great mix onto two channels then have someone finish with as many individual tracks as where recorded... best of both worlds. The wireless receivers are small and the sound department manages them. Battery replacement is the only necessary up-keep once they are set up. If the camera department complains thell them: "boo hoo... tough chit cry baby!" :)
 
For every RED shoot.. except two (with Mike Burton, cause Mike is da'man) I use an additional camera or a completely separate sound solution. And plan to put it together in post.

Sure red does not have onboard sound recording, but your not paying $18,000 for sound. Your paying it for the picture mainly. -But with 4 sound inputs on the side your welcome to try anything (its your camera).

Sure you can have for jacks set up for sound.
- Boom Mic
- Wireless Lav 1
- Wireless Lav 2
- Hand Mic

We mainly do documentaries and a few Native American Film Screenings or our Film Festivals. *(yes its abit overkill for having a RED on a movie screening but it shows that indians are just as much in the techno nerd crowd as all of Hollywood and Bollywood (dots, not feathers).
 
1. It makes you look like a betacam news douche.
2. You get a bunch off cables sticking out of the side of your cool camera.
3. It can be very convenient to be able to roll sound with out the camera (wild lines, nat sound etc.)
4. If you plan on doing this for a living, it gets you conditioned to the way that professionals do it. It's down right sad watching a director flailing, "ACTION!" ", uh we're not rolling" "Roll Camera, ACTI-" "Speed" "what?" "Sound Speed?" " Yes we are speeding" "ACTI-" and Marker....scene 27 take 12, mark" "Now Can I call it now? ACTION!" "um I'm sorry, line?" "ok we need to reload....."
5. You get to use a slate which impresses chicks.
6. If you record sound to the camera, you will have the sound guy poking the camera menus with a stick. Sound guys can poke their own stuff but should stay away from cameras where they can accidentally change stuff in menus they don't know.
7. Finally, you will get better sound, with more freedom to move the camera.

Nick
 
no problems

no problems

Erick Stoll said:
I'm shooting a short next week on the Red. All conveniences point to recording sound on the Red, after going through a mixer of course.

Tell me why I shouldn't!
Click to expand...

If you hate to have a extra cable to your red 1 don't do it. I'm shooting sinds march 2008 only direct in to the r1 without no problems and super sound.

grz Robert R1 1265
 
You could do as Roberto suggests: Both, as long as the operator doesn't mind two cables sticking out of the RED.

Toss an ENG receiver on the RED, but multitrack your sources on a decent recorder...A 744, Nagra VI or something similar. The very last thing you want is to be cabled to the camera. That creates an ugly mess of issues.

Your editor (or dailies reviewer) can get started with the RED audio, as long as (s)he is mindful of the audio logs when selecting takes. The post mixer can draw on the higher quality multitrack for a decent mix.

And, as Nick said menus can get messed up. I have a library of camera manuals (PDFs), so I can tweak audio settings for ENG/doc stuff, but as careful as I am, I prefer not to invade the SP's domain.

And I agree, a slate looks sexy, even though the Denecke slabs don't have the cachet of some chalk-based clapboard...
http://reduser.net/forum/member.php?u=6581
 
Nick Gardner said:
1. It makes you look like a betacam news douche.
2. You get a bunch off cables sticking out of the side of your cool camera.
3. It can be very convenient to be able to roll sound with out the camera (wild lines, nat sound etc.)
4. If you plan on doing this for a living, it gets you conditioned to the way that professionals do it. It's down right sad watching a director flailing, "ACTION!" ", uh we're not rolling" "Roll Camera, ACTI-" "Speed" "what?" "Sound Speed?" " Yes we are speeding" "ACTI-" and Marker....scene 27 take 12, mark" "Now Can I call it now? ACTION!" "um I'm sorry, line?" "ok we need to reload....."
5. You get to use a slate which impresses chicks.
6. If you record sound to the camera, you will have the sound guy poking the camera menus with a stick. Sound guys can poke their own stuff but should stay away from cameras where they can accidentally change stuff in menus they don't know.
7. Finally, you will get better sound, with more freedom to move the camera.

Nick
Click to expand...

You've got me convinced.
 
Nick Gardner said:
1. It makes you look like a betacam news douche.
2. You get a bunch off cables sticking out of the side of your cool camera.
3. It can be very convenient to be able to roll sound with out the camera (wild lines, nat sound etc.)
4. If you plan on doing this for a living, it gets you conditioned to the way that professionals do it. It's down right sad watching a director flailing, "ACTION!" ", uh we're not rolling" "Roll Camera, ACTI-" "Speed" "what?" "Sound Speed?" " Yes we are speeding" "ACTI-" and Marker....scene 27 take 12, mark" "Now Can I call it now? ACTION!" "um I'm sorry, line?" "ok we need to reload....."
5. You get to use a slate which impresses chicks.
6. If you record sound to the camera, you will have the sound guy poking the camera menus with a stick. Sound guys can poke their own stuff but should stay away from cameras where they can accidentally change stuff in menus they don't know.
7. Finally, you will get better sound, with more freedom to move the camera.

Nick
Click to expand...

Post of the month.

But seriously, we've been having trouble playing back clips in camera when there is embedded audio. Build 17. The clips are fine, you just can't watch them in the camera.
 
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