Conundrum...

[John Caballero]

Building a complicated and powerful ASIC is not an easy task.

That is exactly where the buck stops. This digital cameras are computers. To build one that will deliver everything that we expect is going to take a major breaktrough undertaking. Time will only tell. I hope it won't turn into a longer waiting time.

 

[Casey Green]

I think a factor perhaps overlooked here is that Scarlet will be entering the prosumer market (at least for the 2/3 " version) where would-be customers will expect a certain level of "feature-complete-ness" (if you will).

R1 was released in beta form and the customers that put down deposits and eventually took delivery of them were very aware they were in this for the long haul - that many features were missing, bugs were to be expected, and firmware and software revisions were to come regularly. And hardware issues early on were also tolerated as part of the process.

My point being that with the release of a fixed lens Scarlet (which probably will be manufactured on a much larger scale), the prosumer market will most likely expect a pretty finished product.

If this is the case, then I think that time should be taken to make Scarlet as bullet proof as possible before release. I don't like the idea of having to defend Scarlet out in the field because it is still "beta"... it just seems that RED has matured beyond this and if it means taking more time, I think it will be well spent.

my $.02

 

[Andrew Crossland]

I Agree!

I Agree!

Getting Scarlet out of the door should be your number one priority. People that don't own RED Ones probably don't own them because of the cost. The RED One is already a highly capable cinema camera. The Epic is an extension of that, at a much higher price point. You don't hear current RED One owners stressing a time table because they are satisfied right now.

Get the Scarlet out ASAP; can we really complain for you add more features at its price point? No. Price point and availability are key. You can seriously destroy the sub-$10,000 prosumer market with it.

Take your time with the Epic. Anyone who has the cash for that thing can surely wait or continue shooting with a RED One.

Very well said.

 

[Alex Boothby]

Another point - will the computer / data industry even be ready to handle the announced Epic data rates like REDCODE 42 up to REDCODE 225 in the very short term...? We've all experienced problems with CF cards not being able to handle REDCODE 36 @ 4K. I've also read that the theoretical maximum of Compact Flash is well below 225MB / sec.

If this means switching to a new recording format I think Red needs to be open with their customers about this so we can budget accordingly... Not now of course, but some time

Back to my thesis argument - PLEASE DON'T RUSH!

 

[Alex Boothby]

Why is the "sub-$10,000 prosumer" program part of the same delivery as the "ultra-pro" Epic program? It has suddenly struck me how insane this is. These are completely different markets with different needs. Oi Vey!

I agree that Red could make a splash in the consumer / prosumer world and likely turn a healthy profit (apocalyptic financial meltdown notwithstanding). But to make this part of the same product and delivery as their much more expensive Epic pro program seems nuts.

With any luck, Jim's secret news is that they have carved the "fixed lens 2/3" Scarlet" product out of their pro program and made it a separate entity. And by all means rush it out. Give Cannon & Panasonic a lashing. But please give the Epic program the respect it deserves.

(AND no I am not a separatist, segregationist or elitist in real life. Only on the web )

WINGNUTS!!!!

 

[Steven Swigart]

Excited to see the new line up this year! I think it's great what RED is doing. No rush needed.

 

[Isaac Brody]

While the transparency of product changes is unlike other companies I think in some ways it's better to under promise and over deliver. I think each change sets up the expectation that more is being offered, or the reverse that something is being taken away.

At this point I'm not concerned with the details anymore, just make it and get it out there. The original plan was revolutionary, and the successive plans have promised even more. I feel a certain amount of "changes" fatigue.

Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it.

I'm counting on this.

 

[Alexander Christ]

...I do not care much about the schedule, shipping in 2010 is fine. The right features and a well-thought line of products is most important. Sleep on it more than twice...

 

[Clayton Talmon]

I tend to agree with the comments from ibloom and afogel (what happened to the idea of using real names?).

At some point the line has to be drawn and production begins. Can Scarlet and Epic production be split into two different production time lines?

We fall in the non R1 owner category and are waiting for the Scarlet FF35. We are constantly shooting - the problem for us is that we are loading our library with non Red material. As we enter our prime shooting season we would love to get the Scarlet sooner than later.

With that said - if Jim thinks he needs time to get it "right" then we'll wait and re-shoot the material later.

Thanks Jim and all the team at Red!

 

[Pascal Scheffers]

My guess is that most RED users are still, and will be for a while, the early-adopter kind. We're quite happy with rough edges. It shouldn't fail in the middle of something important (too often), but hickups are okay. Slipping the schedule doesn't sound like a good plan.

Would it be possible to make the ASICs replaceable in a socket? Or would that blow away any chance of a profit if you had to replace them? Or is the development time of the initial version just very, very long?

 

[Christian Edwards]

What's an ASIC? Answer: Blinkin awesome, that's what. It's a new home for the magic pixies.

Graeme

:iagree: :thumbsup: ... these new emoticons are great


all the best

 

[Snow R. Shai]

Waitnesness

Waitnesness

I do understand the folks that do not want to wait anymore, and really need a camera now. I know I do. We are currently on hold on all pro camera purchases, until the new line is available. Although, It's gets harder and harder to shoot with other cameras...
Yet, when we invest $$$$ this year [hopefully] or the next, we would like the cool new gear to have all the features announced, some new features, solid workflow and naturally being a fully operational battle station!
If it takes RED longer than expected, however inconvenient, so be it.
We do not invest this type of cash easily.
In other words, as much as i really need a scarlet rig right now, i would prefer waiting longer for the full package.
Keep up the grand work, just let us know when you are done.

 

[Shane Peel]

Hey Jim,
Get something in the market that is better than what's available, at a good price and the rest is details. The yachties say you have to throw the ropes at some stage and actually start sailing!!! As if we would not all upgrade as available anyway and is this not the whole mantra of Red ?

 

[Elliot Leboe]

"You must do what you feel is right."

- Obi-wan

 

[Peter Hodgins]

we are still hoping for late summer of this year to begin the rollout of the new lineup.

I'm calling this Oct 1st 2009. Will it be S35 Scarlet? I don't mind delays ... I want a good camera for indie filmmaking. I can always lock myself in and write screenplays ... checking the web once a day.

 

[Michael N. Sutton]

Bigger, Faster, Stronger = Infinity
I say solidify your feature set this week and build it. Save the other possibilities for another camera or as a secondary brain module add on down the line. Just add a multi pin connector of some sort in case you want to tack on another mini brain module that adds a second ASIC in the future.

Build it now, with provisions for the future or just offer a new model in two years. I mean you are already offering the world with the Scarlet and Epic based on the features we know about it.

 

[Simon Valderrama]

Asics

Asics

What's ASIC?

uh ... probably they're talkin' about RED branded shoes as a RED cap follow up?

 

[Steven Caesare]

ASIC's will also allow that two second boot we all want. there are ways of upgrading the camera if you only have some functions being performed by asics

As several people have mentioned, there's a tradeoff between flexibility (FPGA) vs. power/performance (ASIC). Several have expressed concern that while an ASIC design may allow a sub-2 second bootup and less power draw, it would hamstring future upgradability.

Not necessarily so. Hybrid solutions allow ASIC's to do the heavy lifting for well-defined fixed functions (think mathematical transforms in the redcode codec), yet allow a FPGA or CPU to handle overall system functionality ("OS" type stuff, such as directing data flow, configuring displays and ports, screens & menus, etc...).

A good example of this is modern network equipment. A 24 port network switch operating at 1Gbps (or even 10!) will likely have an ASIC per port that handles receving the packet, decoding, transferring payload, etc... all at line speed. Yet that same switch will have a CPU running an OS that handles overall system functionality, configuration, and interface. That OS can be upgraded to provide significant new functionality, even thought the ASIC's are hard coded to do their job.

There's no way you could do a 24 port Gig switch that runes at line rate with just a CPU/FPGA without requring LOTS of space and power. The hybrod approach works well. Oh, and many of them can boot in a couple of seconds. :thumbsup:

I think this is a great direction to go.

-Steve

 

[Steven Caesare]

At this point, the only quibble I have with Red is the delivery date slipping.
I don't want a Red One at this point in my career.
I'm at film school and I want a cam that I can own, learn on, and grow with.
Whenever I mention the Scarlet these days it's always followed by 'if they deliver the damn thing.'

Despite all the improvements and the modular concept, I still want the fixed lens Scarlet.
Every time I finish a shoot these days and cut up the footage, I think 'wonder what this would have looked like in RedCode?'

You say that the store will open it's doors on the Scarlets this year?
Excellent.

Deliver or cancel.
Eather way it's better then wondering 'what might be.'

I said this during RED One development, and I'll say it again for the "If they ever ship...:" crowd:

RED's development schedule is no longer than any other similar manuafacturer, and in fact is probably significatly FASTER.

What's different is that they share it all with you form conception to birth. Sony does not. So if you'd like, they can shut up, and then announce in January of 2010 their new product named Scarlet, and that they are shipping in March.

Oh and incidentally, your opportunity to provide feedback will have LOOONG since passed.

Is that what you want?

-Steve

 

[sergio arguello]

its never never land for magic pixies , you never grow old or up or out. you just stay the same forever

So its safe to say that the magic pixies get a hard dose of "peter pan syndrome " yes?:couch: