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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Conundrum...

Ok here we go, first post I have been reading a lot of interesting stuff here. Have been playing with some REDCODE clips and I am very very very curious at the new cameras to say the least.
As a media student I am very interested in something that can create the illusive "filmlook" that I can actually post produce myself, awesome stuff to say the least!

ASIC's are cool but as said they are harder to change/improve afterwards so I would vote for a thorough R&D process so that we can enjoy the best camera possible. My 2 cents :thumbsup:

P.S. I am in The Netherlands, this means that when I order my RED Scarlet camera I have to pay immense amounts of tax. Maybe red could create a sort of dispatch center in Europe (possible dealer) so the threshold towards buying for us europeans is lowered.
 
I think the most important thing is to maintain a balance.
Personally I find that the processes of 'perfecting' and 'delivering' a product are best kept in a balance. To perfect for too long is to become outmoded and loose energy.
To deliver too early is to become outmoded and waste potential.

I trust Red and I wait for you. This is based in the belief that you will make a superior product that is more complete than any of these cheap new native 35 upstarts from the bigwigs.

I love the scarlet, but yes it does fall short of my dream camera. I would really love a s35 monstro scarlet at 4k, that can shoot up to 120fps at 3k. If not that, then an s16 to four thirds with those stats. But that is just me; I will still go with you, and I hope you can make something amazing that will satisfy everyone. (I love the latest announcement, being a perfectionist myself ;) )

Go Red!
 
Depends what we're talking about Jim.

If there are bugs and stuff like people have been fretting about in this thread, then sure the camera isn't ready and we should stop rushing you.

If it's an issue of adding more features and improving design, it's already best-in-class specs-wise as far as I can see, so I say just get 'em out the door at the end of the Summer. Gotta save something for Scarlet 2!
 
At this point adding features is completely unnecessary IMHO.

What is far more important is having a camera more stable and reliable than the R1. Focus on ironing out bugs, not features at this stage. The designs already have more than enough functions for cinema production.
 
Djamel Becherif said:
P.S. I am in The Netherlands, this means that when I order my RED Scarlet camera I have to pay immense amounts of tax. Maybe red could create a sort of dispatch center in Europe (possible dealer) so the threshold towards buying for us europeans is lowered.
Click to expand...

They have a Store in England or so. As I'm from Germany I was concerned about that too, but England seems to be a good address for their Shop :)
 
When its ripe

When its ripe

Do you want a true Digital Cinema camera that you can own rather than rent? RedOnes are still for sale the last I looked.

Do you want the next generation Digital Cinema camera(s) from RED to be an elegantly designed piece of kit that you will love for years? I do. I would much rather the Madman and the RedTeam take the appropriate amount of time to use what they have learned and make the new rigs airtight.
 
PLEEEEEEEEEEASE nudge away all and any care for chatter due to delays from customers/onlookers and be patient to get the camera to its tip top possible configuration, especially if that means that there is an integral piece of hardware on the horizon that requires a month or more of waiting.

It's not when about when you bring Scarlet and Epic to the table, but how. I was patient with the RED One and constantly said the same thing, get it right the first time, that way it'll be the last time. =)
 
Hi Jim,

Please take your time to get it right the first time around, this will impress the whole industry, and the whole me too :)

Emmanuel
 
I disagree with delaying the schedule too much more unless of course the changes and upgrades were truly revolutionary. And I think they would have to really big to wait for.

Waiting is almost always the wrong decisions for companies to make. And they know this. Once you've achieved a minimum standard, then incorporate changes into future builds / models. The Red should have waited by all logic, but that would have been the wrong decision. Getting it to market with warts and all helped the overall plan and evolution and interest in the camera program.

As that old dead guy said "you can't let perfect be the enemy of good"
 
Without actually counting, it seems the current Red owners are vastly in favor of "take your time, we're in no hurry" while non Red owners seem to be more "give us whatever you got when time XYZ comes around".
 
I don't own a Red one but I think that you should take an extra month to perfect Scarlet and Epic if that is what you need. I'm just so excited it is hard to wait!
 
Who is RED?

Who is RED?

Jim you already know all this, but since you asked, and maybe as a new perspective here -

Who does RED want to be as a product and business? Who are you?

Are you selling very carefully crafted but very innovative best in class jewelry that is worshipped by hardcore users and don't have Fortune 500 aspirations - delivering only highly tested, perfected products to a segment that will wait? Quality not quantity? Leica, Sound Devices, Cooke, etc (don't let thread wander off, just examples). If so, it can't scale, not truly scale, as your time to market would be too slow in the mid/upper mass market.

Or are you interested in scale, changing the game across multiple segments of the market, including the upper-mid mass market? Beating Canon, Sony at their games in this market segment. So far, you're beating them in the upper 1-5% of the market - the extreme upper market - if you look at the market as prosumer to pro motion imaging not just pro cinema.

It sure seems like you are shooting for the latter, in the best possible way (Apple, Sony in some ways) of course. If so, everyone on redUser has to grasp that you cant effectively play the game by delivering perfected jewelry for hardcore users. And it seems you already answered the question with R1 - it was not perfect, but it is changing the game, fast. There is a time to market/perfection/feature balance that's healthy, but clearly not tilted heavily towards the perfected side.

And as an R1 owner, I think many of us benefit from that looser approach - get it out, compete, beat them to the punch, but at the price of some instability initially, and as you say, with the benefit of delivering new features and tech fast.

If you split RED into 2 camps - one prosumer (Scarlet) and one for the high-end market, in theory you can deliver perfected jewelry to the people here who want perfection and will wait and pay, and compete in time to market and overall product performance with Canon, Sony etc on the mass side. But in practice, again, as you know, you can't BE two different cultures. So you'd have to have 2 entirely different businesses, cultures, etc - you can see that same conundrum on RedUser as far as customer demand.

Now for an answer - speed wins. Deliver it fast, at the expense of features and stability potentially - as you have done, well. Don't you have to do that anyway really? In the upper mass market, Canon and Sony will if you won't, and the overall market segment does not expect or want to pay for jewelry. I know, you'll say here that you can do it all - beat Sony and Canon, with better tech, faster, and do it near perfectly. You did 2 of those 3 things with the R1, and you are winning. But its not perfectly fleshed out, dialed in jewelry. If it were, you'd still be in testing, not production. I'm not saying its black and white, that you are delivering unstable tech - you're not of course - but you get it.

Does your customer? I suppose its not the customers job to think that way.
 
DaveT said:
At this point, the only quibble I have with Red is the delivery date slipping.
I don't want a Red One at this point in my career.
I'm at film school and I want a cam that I can own, learn on, and grow with.
Whenever I mention the Scarlet these days it's always followed by 'if they deliver the damn thing.'

Despite all the improvements and the modular concept, I still want the fixed lens Scarlet.
Every time I finish a shoot these days and cut up the footage, I think 'wonder what this would have looked like in RedCode?'

You say that the store will open it's doors on the Scarlets this year?
Excellent.

Deliver or cancel.
Eather way it's better then wondering 'what might be.'
Click to expand...
Yeah, a lot say it.
 
I'm still just hitting my stride with my Red One, and preparing for the ready to ship notice for my 18-85 is my next priority. I'm kinda glad I'm not scrambling to put together funds for the next generation yet. End of summer will be here fast enough.
 
All good points Afogel, but the move to ASICs means RED can't bug fix cameras in the field as easily, or maybe not at all. So it makes sense to have an extended Beta period.
 
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