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Contax Zeiss Survival Guide

Tommaso Alvisi said:
Jordan,

the 18 doesn't suck at all, it's just slow and it doesn't have front threads, the only negative points I see, having ACTUALLY used the lens...the look is gorgeous and distortion VERY WELL controlled!

MMJ is supposedly better but it depends if you are looking for cleanliness or for the AE look/imperfections/coatings!!! ;)

Hope it helps!
Click to expand...

really? is always on everyones disappointed list, well thats good to know!
i see some come with a hood that says 70-86? or something like that…so no filter threads??? i wonder how that hood, which looks more like a ring goes on.
 
Tommaso Alvisi said:
Jordan,

the 18 doesn't suck at all, it's just slow and it doesn't have front threads, the only negative points I see, having ACTUALLY used the lens...the look is gorgeous and distortion VERY WELL controlled!

MMJ is supposedly better but it depends if you are looking for cleanliness or for the AE look/imperfections/coatings!!! ;)

Hope it helps!
Click to expand...

this ring the 18mm comes with sometimes...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-...20962824?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item1e876b1d08

then this ones got something else going on...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DK-CONTAX-C...22884029?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item46165cb0bd
 
still looking for a visual tutorial on de-clicking their apertures!
let me know please!
 
jordan levy said:
really? is always on everyones disappointed list, well thats good to know!
i see some come with a hood that says 70-86? or something like that…so no filter threads??? i wonder how that hood, which looks more like a ring goes on.
Click to expand...

The 18 doesn't suck, it's just an oddball. It has very, very well corrected distortion, in particular for a full frame wide-angle that covers 6K dragon! I'm very fond of it's look. Put it this way, it's distortion is just was well corrected as the legendary 21mm distagon, except its 3mm WIDER! So it's achieving similar levels of correction, at a wider, more challenging FOV. It also has nice close focusing ability. Highlights bloom nicely too (at least my MMJ does).

Downsides are as follows:

1) It's slow at F4, and not razor sharp at F4 either. I find it perfectly usable there, but if you were pixel peeping and comparing it to the 21, you won't find the same performance.

2) It has no front threads. I have the 70-86 attachment (which does have threads), and that DOES suck. It protrudes so far out that once you add a Cordvision front, and then stack a filter or two, you are vignetting at 4K (imagine how bad it would be at 5k). I'm sending my 18mm to RP Lens to have them add an 80OD piece of Delrin at the very tip of the lens. That way I can clamp a threaded Cavision "hood" on the front when I need to, and use 77mm filters that way.

3) The front rotates. So if you have a filter or a polarizer, it's going to rotate as you focus. Kind of a pain in the ass.

Overall, I'd say if you are looking for a wide, and don't want to fork out a lung for the 21mm, perhaps consider getting a Tokina 11-16 or Sigma 18-35. Both are fine lenses, and with a bit of grading you can get them to match close enough. Normally I'm a purist, but hey...sometimes we need to cut corners (and that ok). I don't like how the Tokina flares (distracting, rainbows with a smeary look), but otherwise, the FOV is often such a jump, I think this helps disguise the "match" anyway.

So far I'm liking the Sigma 18-35, but haven't shot it alongside my Contax enough to decide how it matches. I know Domenic has had great success though.

Also, I shoot at 2.8 a lot, so my 18mm generally only comes out when I'm outside.

Positives are as follows:

I know this sounds subjective, but when I put on the 18mm vs the Tokina and Sigma, there is something that just "feels right". It has nice pleasing low contrast (w/out being extreme), flares well, and overall distortion looks very natural (especially considering we are shooting down the heart of the lens, where distortion is even better corrected). I do think that visually, it is very pleasing and has nice, organic character. It's a very nice trade off of "tecnically good", and "visually pleasing".

However, it has it's downsides. At F4 it's too slow for practical studio work. And the rotating front w/out threads is an extra hurdle.

Because of this, I do recommend this lens aesthetically, but practically I think it makes sense to also have either the Tokina or Sigma as an alternative. Workflow wise - this probably gives you the most options.

Hope this helps.

UPDATE: Here's an example of where the 18mm is good to have vs the Tokina or Sigma.

vs SIGMA: Sigma doesn't cover 18mm on Dragon. Neither does the 18mm Super Speed. So outside if you need a Zeiss 18mm that covers 6K with a nice older coating, the 18mm F4 suddenly becomes quite attractive.

vs TOKINA: The Tokina DOES cover Dragon at 6K, however the Tokina's flares are not as organic as the 18mm distagon's. Outside at F4, the Contax 18mm...again...becomes another nice alternative.
 
Last edited:
Nick Morrison said:
The 18 doesn't suck, it's just an oddball. It has very, very well corrected distortion, in particular for a full frame wide-angle that covers 6K dragon! I'm very fond of it's look. Put it this way, it's distortion is just was well corrected as the legendary 21mm distagon, except its 3mm WIDER! So it's achieving similar levels of correction, at a wider, more challenging FOV. It also has nice close focusing ability. Highlights bloom nicely too (at least my MMJ does).

Downsides are as follows:

1) It's slow at F4, and not razor sharp at F4 either. I find it perfectly usable there, but if you were pixel peeping and comparing it to the 21, you won't find the same performance.

2) It has no front threads. I have the 72-86 attachment (which does have threads), and that DOES suck. It protrudes so far out that once you add a Cordvision front, and then stack a filter or two, you are vignetting at 4K (imagine how bad it would be at 5k). I'm sending my 18mm to RP Lens to have them add an 80OD piece of Delrin to the outside. That way I can put a threaded Cavision "hood" on the front when I need to, and use 77mm filters that way.

3) The front rotates. So if you have a filter or a polarizer, it's going to rotate as you focus. Kind of a pain in the ass.

Overall, I'd say if you are looking for a wide, and don't want to fork out a lung for the 21mm, perhaps consider getting a Tokina 11-16 or Sigma 18-35. Both are fine lenses, and with a bit of grading you can get them to match close enough. Normally I'm a purist, but hey...sometimes we need to cut corners (and that ok). I don't like how the Tokina flares (distracting, rainbows with a smeary look), but otherwise, the FOV is often such a jump, I think this helps disguise the "match" anyway.

So far I'm liking the Sigma 18-35, but haven't shot it alongside my Contax enough to decide how it matches. I know Domenic has had great success though.

Also, I shoot at 2.8 a lot, so my 18mm generally only comes out when I'm outside.

Positives are as follows:

I know this sounds subjective, but when I put on the 18mm vs the Tokina and Sigma, there is something that just "feels right". It has nice pleasing low contrast (w/out being extreme), flares well, and overall distortion looks very natural (especially considering we are shooting down the heart of the lens, where distortion is even better corrected). I do think that visually, it is very pleasing and has nice, organic character. It's a very nice trade off of "tecnically good", and "visually pleasing".

However, it has it's downsides. At F4 it's too slow for practical studio work. And the rotating front w/out threads is an extra hurdle.

Because of this, I do recommend this lens aesthetically, but practically I think it makes sense to also have either the Tokina or Sigma as an alternative. Workflow wise - this probably gives you the most options.

Hope this helps.

UPDATE: Here's an example of where the 18mm is good to have vs the Tokina or Sigma.

vs SIGMA: Sigma doesn't cover 18mm on Dragon. Neither does the 18mm Super Speed. So outside if you need a Zeiss 18mm that covers 6K with a nice older coating, the 18mm F4 suddenly becomes quite attractive.

vs TOKINA: The Tokina DOES cover Dragon at 6K, however the Tokina's flares are not as organic as the 18mm distagon's. Outside at F4, the Contax 18mm...again...becomes another nice alternative.
Click to expand...

NIck you are the best, i appreciate the long and detailed response, i knew i could count on you. this is all i needed to hear, love it.
ive used the tokina once and i really did not like it, like to said, the flares are maybe the worst ive seen.
the 18mm is really an outside lens anyway, and i tend to light to a 5.6 in any normal situation, which id take extra precaution to do so if i know ill need the 18mm, besdide im really into glass matching, i have a horrible time, even shooting with all angenieux sometimes!
id love to know exactly what you are going to do with the front and if it works id love to do it too!
lets have them do two! or i wonder if duclose can just modify the 70/86 hood? or is it 72/86? i thought i saw 70.
 
jordan levy said:
NIck you are the best, i appreciate the long and detailed response, i knew i could count on you. this is all i needed to hear, love it.
ive used the tokina once and i really did not like it, like to said, the flares are maybe the worst ive seen.
the 18mm is really an outside lens anyway, and i tend to light to a 5.6 in any normal situation, which id take extra precaution to do so if i know ill need the 18mm, besdide im really into glass matching, i have a horrible time, even shooting with all angenieux sometimes!
id love to know exactly what you are going to do with the front and if it works id love to do it too!
lets have them do two! or i wonder if duclose can just modify the 70/86 hood? or is it 72/86? i thought i saw 70.
Click to expand...

No problem, happy to help. Agreed about Tokina flare, I was trying my best to be very polite...(haha)

You are right! It's an 70-86 adapter. Updated my post. Not sure modifying the hood would help...its pretty BIG as is. It's more the size and bulk I find problematic. Because once you clamp it on, you have an 86mm front. Then you need to add an 86-77mm step DOWN thread. Then a 77mm Cordvision front. It gets pretty bulky and unwieldy, fast...Once I upgrade to Epic and start shooting 5K, I worry this front will become even less practical (Im vignetting at 4K HD with two filters currently).

Regarding the delrin front, from what Peter at RP lens has mentioned, what he does is add a focus gear w/out teeth (ie just normal Delrin) at the very end of the barrel (ie as close to the front element as possible), and assuming his delrin is 10mm wide, then he has in effect given your "front" an 80mm OD. You could push on an 80mm OD "cap", or clamp on a Cavision 80mm "front" and use those threads if needed.

Does that make sense? Basically your 18mm would have TWO pieces of Delrin - one in the middle of barrel is your FOCUS gear, and another at TIP of barrel is your toothless 80 ODmm piece.

That's how I understand it anyway!
 
Nick Morrison said:
No problem, happy to help. Agreed about Tokina flare, I was trying my best to be very polite...(haha)

You are right! It's an 70-86 adapter. Updated my post. Not sure modifying the hood would help...its pretty BIG as is. It's more the size and bulk I find problematic. Because once you clamp it on, you have an 86mm front. Then you need to add an 86-77mm step DOWN thread. Then a 77mm Cordvision front. It gets pretty bulky and unwieldy, fast...Once I upgrade to Epic and start shooting 5K, I worry this front will become even less practical (Im vignetting at 4K HD with two filters currently).

Regarding the delrin front, from what Peter at RP lens has mentioned, what he does is add a focus gear w/out teeth (ie just normal Delrin) at the very end of the barrel (ie as close to the front element as possible), and assuming his delrin is 10mm wide, then he has in effect given your "front" an 80mm OD. You could push on an 80mm OD "cap", or clamp on a Cavision 80mm "front" and use those threads if needed.

Does that make sense? Basically your 18mm would have TWO pieces of Delrin - one in the middle of barrel is your FOCUS gear, and another at TIP of barrel is your toothless 80 ODmm piece.

That's how I understand it anyway!
Click to expand...

that sounds good, because i have an 80mm clamp on that sits flush to the lens and hold 4.5 round filters, so i think that would work, how much did he say for that? check it out and let me know! though i dont have the lens yet, but i feel like going on any shoot without an 18mm is a mistake!
 
Regarding the 18mm, thought it would be nice to revisit the pebblespace review. He's obviously very fond of the lens, and says:

BUILD:
In terms of build quality and feel, the Contax 18mm is my favorite Contax lens.
Click to expand...

DISTORTION:
Over the years what struck me as most impressive about the Contax 18mm is its distortion correction. Compared to the 21mm F2.8 Distagon and the 28mm F2.8 Distagon, the 18mm Distagon has less visible distortion to my eye.
Click to expand...
COLORS:
The 18mm Distagon colors are pure Zeiss with the electric sky blues and vibrant contrasts. With the 1Ds Mark III’s 14-bit file format, the subsequent 16 bits TIFF can be stretched, twisted and pushed to extremes in Photoshop
Click to expand...

PERFORMANCE:
The 18mm Distagon is a good wide angle prime. The corners are better than those from Canon 16-35L II. Wide open (F4) can be soft and the lens seems happiest when the subject is 5 feet or further away....I love the 18mm’s build quality and enjoy using the lens. Its compact size makes it is easy to carry and takes up little bag-space, unlike the Zeiss 21mm Distagon.
Click to expand...
 
jordan levy said:
that sounds good, because i have an 80mm clamp on that sits flush to the lens and hold 4.5 round filters, so i think that would work, how much did he say for that? check it out and let me know! though i dont have the lens yet, but i feel like going on any shoot without an 18mm is a mistake!
Click to expand...

Curious. What 80mm Clamp on do you have? Always looking for good new solutions..

Not sure about cost yet...I'll let you know. But usually adding delrin ring is in the $125 range I believe..
 
Nick Morrison said:
Curious. What 80mm Clamp on do you have? Always looking for good new solutions..

Not sure about cost yet...I'll let you know. But usually adding delrin ring is in the $125 range I believe..
Click to expand...

made by century precision optics, its a rubber sunshade, takes 4.5 round filters, stackable with multiple rings if youd like, and an 80mm clamp on.
its od school, used with zeiss speed cine primes back in the day, but i found one on ebay and had to have it, then started a little collection of 4.5 round filters. if i see another one come up ill let you know, its great because it makes the filter sit pretty plush, i believe they also made one that took series 9 filters.
 
eh, i dont see one right now, but ill keep looking. the cool thing is that if you have a 77mm filter, like a clear on the end of your canon zoom or something, it actually clamps on to that too! bonus.
 
PS Toia just got back to me, this Schneider clamp has 80mm front threads. Not sure how to use standard step downs with this...as they often begin at 82mm. Maybe super glue an 82-77mm step down to the front?
 
Nick Morrison said:
PS Toia just got back to me, this Schneider clamp has 80mm front threads. Not sure how to use standard step downs with this...as they often begin at 82mm. Maybe super glue an 82-77mm step down to the front?
Click to expand...

who is PS tola? someone at schiender? that doesnt seem right, it says it takes 4.5 round drop in filters, so it should be a retaining ring, then you should be able to stack other 4.5 round retaining rings on top of that, then theres an optional shade that screws on. hmmmm
 
Nick Morrison said:
PS Toia just got back to me, this Schneider clamp has 80mm front threads. Not sure how to use standard step downs with this...as they often begin at 82mm. Maybe super glue an 82-77mm step down to the front?
Click to expand...

read the description on their site

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=2083&IID=2993

"This is a Set-Screw-Locking-Ring adapter, designed to mount a 4 1/2 inch drop in filter on a camera lens with a front diameter of 80mm."
 
This was a very precise description how to judge the 18mm Zeiss C/Y and how to place it against the Tokina or Sigma – nobody could give that any better than Nick!

BTW, from my tests the Sigma matches Contax glass better than the Tokina, but not very close. Please let me add two other vintage lenses here:

– The Minolta Rokkor MC W.Rokkor 21mm 1:2.8 is a very nice lens with a non-rotating front thread and an optical quality only mildly inferior to the Zeiss C/Y 21mm – I'd say from all vintage glass that is cheaper than the 21mm Distagon it's the only one coming close. It's distortion is well controlled and very similar to the Distagon (mild mustache), resolution is great and the only weakness is some CA (even the Distagon is not completely free of that). The other problem is the different mount.

– The RMC Tokina 17mm 1:3.5 has a non-rotating front thread too, it can be found in C/Y mount for less than 100,- U$ with some patience and it has quite descent optical quality. A bit low-con WO (but pretty good resolution) and really sharp and contrasty stopped down. Different in color, but same mount if you look for it. You can get it in FD mount instead and use Leitax, I'd suppose.

Both cover 6K for sure, being still FF lenses, and you'll not use the extreme corners even with the Dragon.
 
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