CONTAX ZEISS: LIKE SUPERSPEEDS

[Nick Morrison]

I recently put together a very clean set 21 f2.8, 28 f2. 35 f1.4, 50 f1.4, 85 f1.4, and 135 f2.8
Was very picky to get the dates as close as possible and the glass/housings in good shape. The price including the leitax mounts and duclos conversions was about to 8K. I'm sure a bit of luck and more searching could've knocked about $500-800 off the overall price, but think that number is pretty close to the standard now. Unfortunately for those searching the prices have risen lately...so an 8K budget going in is prob a safe bet. Any savings from that would just be a nice bonus.

Hey Paul, what serial number range did you go for? Low 6's? Mid 6s? (AE). Or high 6s? 7s? (MM).

Just curious. I own a pretty large collection of Contax primes and zooms, but never started to notice the serial #'s until a couple of months ago (that's my inexperience showing).

For whatever it's worth, I specifically compared the oldest 50 1.4 I could get my hands on (Serial number in the 5s!!!!!). Against the NEWEST one I could find (Serial number in the 9s!!!!). And to my surprise. They looked IDENTICAL. There was maybe 5% more saturation in the newer one, but you'd have to strain to notice. The older did flare a bit more, though.

 

[Nick Morrison]

For whatever it's worth, I compared AE & MM coatings again this week. They match PERFECTLY.

I specifically tested a 50 1.4 in AE and MM, an 85 1.4 in AE and MM, and a 135 AE and MM.

I took stills with them, and couldn't tell the difference at all between them.


When I did a flare test, the AE's did flare a bit more, that's about it.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Just stumbled on this old ebay listing for some Contax "Super Speeds".

The seller's description of the glass is worth noting:

You are bidding a gem of a Zeiss Prime lens set, They are a Zeiss Contax lenses the most expensive and fastest in aperature in there range, selected by Icefilm, Aaton London, Now called Aimimage, and converted to Aaton Mount.

There are 4 lenses included in the set a Rare Zeiss set a 35mm F1.4, 50mm F1.4, 85mm F1.4 and a 135 at F2, an incredibly fast set of lenses, 35mm, 85mm and 135mm, were all made in West Germany at the same place and time they made the Mark 1-2 Arri Zeiss Standard and Super speed lens.

I know that the 135mm F2 is the same Glass selected for the Arri Standard speed that still sells for £3000,00 second hand at T2.2, the 35mm and the 85mm used the same glass as the Mark 1-2-3 Super speeds which again cost £3000,00 pound at there current market value.

The 50mm is also F1.4 and is Made in Japan the F1.4 aperature design was never made in Germany only ever in Japan and is a very sharp and nice lens which matches with the set.

The lens are in very good physical condition and very good optical condition with beautifully rich multi coated glass focus is smooth as is the iris with super clean iris blade all in all is a Very nice example with an 80mm fronts added by Icefilm to the 35mm, 50mm and 85mm, the 135mm is 75mm front, the lenses have all been serviced in London and have really nice and smooth lubricated focus for Motion picture work.

The lenses can be used on all Aaton Super 16 XTR and LTR cameras they cut really nice with a set of wider Zeiss Super speeds such as the MK 1 and 2's range of 9.5mm, 12mm, 16mm and 25mm, They are also a perfect set for the following cameras, Panasonic AG-AF100, GH1-2, GF2, Sony NEX VG10, Sony PMW F3 ect.

I have an Aaton made Adaptor made for the Panasonic AG-AF100 and Micro 4/3 inch cameras for sale in another auction. MFT and Les Bosher can make custom Aaton adaptors for these cameras, and a Ciecio7 on ebay who sold me mine also makes them.

The Aaton Adapter shown on the 50mm will be offered to the winner for extra costs and is not included in this Auction!

A note if Any Red One owners have the P+S IMS mount System on there camera, there is no reason why you can't get someone like Les Bosher to make you a Custom IMS Aaton Mount. This set of lenses is up there with the big boys in quality resolution and aperture speed, they will give a better edge to edge resolution than the standard and Super speed Lenses. They are a lot of possibilities these lenses can offer you as a Cinematographer, there a guy who wants $48000,00 for a set of Arri Mark 3 super speeds in PL mounts, in another auction on here, there isn't much different is how these lenses look and they would look in a side to side comparison. I don't think even the most astute Cinematographer or Lens Technician could tell the different in the overall look both lenses give.

As stated above the lenses comparible to high quality Zeiss lenses, such as MK1-2 Standard and Super Speed lenses, they give a better look than the new Zeiss CP Primes lenses or the there ZF/E range.

I thought his note about the 135 f2 was particularly interesting.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I found this great article on BH's website about how Zeiss re-badged Contax into ZF (and later ZE):

B&H ARTICLE ON CONTAX BECOMING ZF

The first paragraph is my favorite, as it sets up the history perfectly:

Carl Zeiss, the legendary German optics manufacturer, will soon begin shipping the first of a series of Zeiss lenses in a Nikon F mount. With Contax now gone from the scene, the folks at the Carl Zeiss factory found themselves with a bunch of wonderful lens designs with no place to go. Enter the Zeiss ZF-series of lenses.

For those that don't know, Contax went out of production in 2005. The first Zeiss ZF lenses were immediately released the next year in 2006.

Even though many of the "Z" designs are directly inherited from Contax, the biggest difference in these new "Z" lenses was the coating. More modern and contrasty, the ZF/ZE line no loger had the "low con" look that was a signature of older Zeiss glass (think Standard Primes, etc).

With ZF/ZE/CP2...it appeared Zeiss was stepping into the 21st century with a "look" that went head to head with modern glass like Canon EOS lenses, Nikons, Sony, etc.

 

[Paul Schneider]

Hey Paul, what serial number range did you go for? Low 6's? Mid 6s? (AE). Or high 6s? 7s? (MM).

Just curious. I own a pretty large collection of Contax primes and zooms, but never started to notice the serial #'s until a couple of months ago (that's my inexperience showing).

For whatever it's worth, I specifically compared the oldest 50 1.4 I could get my hands on (Serial number in the 5s!!!!!). Against the NEWEST one I could find (Serial number in the 9s!!!!). And to my surprise. They looked IDENTICAL. There was maybe 5% more saturation in the newer one, but you'd have to strain to notice. The older did flare a bit more, though.

Hi Nick,
I went almost entirely with MM. My reasoning at first was simply that they were created most recently and I was apt to find more options with a better overall lens condition. I haven't checked in a while, but I believe the only non-MM lens I own is the 50 1.4. It was a mistaken order on my part, but after testing it matched perfectly so I didn't sweat it.

These things are great. I've shot several projects with them and they are very sharp and I definitely prefer the seem less contrasty than more modern offerings.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hi Nick,
I went almost entirely with MM. My reasoning at first was simply that they were created most recently and I was apt to find more options with a better overall lens condition. I haven't checked in a while, but I believe the only non-MM lens I own is the 50 1.4. It was a mistaken order on my part, but after testing it matched perfectly so I didn't sweat it.

These things are great. I've shot several projects with them and they are very sharp and I definitely prefer the seem less contrasty than more modern offerings.

Yup we compared them to Leica R's this weekend (great lenses), and they were noticeably more low-con. Our wonderful DP said he was getting about a stop extra latitude out of them, compared to other lenses. He was digging them.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Found another interesting ebay listing

Yet again, the seller talks about Contax's similarity to Super Speeds. Especially in regards the coatings:

These Zeiss Contax super speed lenses have beautifully rich T* multi coated optics the same found in Zeiss Mark 2-3 super speeds in Cine housing with PL mounts. which use the now banned earth mineral on the coatings which is another reason why they look nicer than the newer Zeiss ZE/ZF lenses, the build quality and the optics are also a lot better.

 

[Timothy Jones]

Hi Nick,

I love your enthusiasm for the contax . Could you please post some example videos from them?
Like to see the Leica R comparison . Does the footage look anything like " Moonrise Kingdom"?
If they do, i want them.
Thanks,
Tim
www.tjphoto.net

 

[Michael Panfeld]

so how can one distinguish between Contax lenses for 120 film (645) and those for FF 35mm film?

Also, is there a series of Contax zooms that you recommend? Ones that overlap or butt together to cover a nice full range. 17-35, 35-70, 70-700, etc....

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hi Nick,

I love your enthusiasm for the contax . Could you please post some example videos from them?
Like to see the Leica R comparison . Does the footage look anything like " Moonrise Kingdom"?
If they do, i want them.
Thanks,
Tim
www.tjphoto.net

I know, a test is in order. One that compares Contax Zeiss to Standard Speeds, Super Speeds...and then to Zeiss ZF/CP2, Leica R, etc.

We're already talking about it, internally.

In regards Moonrise Kingdom: that was shot on old S16 Super Speeds, and that "glow" on the skin is something I recognized right away, so I'd say yes, our Contax's have a very similar coating. But yes...a more definitive test is order, no doubt. Words only mean so much.

 

[Nick Morrison]

so how can one distinguish between Contax lenses for 120 film (645) and those for FF 35mm film?

Michael, "Contax 645" lenses are almost always marked as such. To make sure you are getting FF35 Contax Lenses, make sure they say "C/Y" mount, which stands for CONTAX/YASHICA. Yashica was their Japanese manufacturing partner that helped them mass produce these FF35 lenses. The common mount also allowed Yashica to make more affordable lenses that helped budget conscious photographers mix and match Zeiss lenses with the more affordable Yashica glass to create a full set.

Also, is there a series of Contax zooms that you recommend? Ones that overlap or butt together to cover a nice full range. 17-35, 35-70, 70-700, etc....

Contax Zeiss has some great zooms. They only caveat is that unlike Leica R, the Contax Zooms are PUSH/PULL. Meaning you focus and zoom all at once on the barrel. Focusing and zooming aren't SEPARATED like they usually are. PUSH/PULL is great for run and gun, but makes it difficult to use a follow focus as the barrel is constantly in motion and never in one place.

Optically though, Contax Zeiss has some blisteringly good zooms. Our DP this weekend, Joe Victorine, texted me this after using my Contax 28-85 on the Ferry:

I just jizzed my pants over your Contax. I want!!!

He then added

Contrast and sharpness are insane. But still somehow soft.

When he came back to set, he checked the wave forms of the shots, and when compared to his Leica R's, the low-con Contax look was giving him about an extra stop on latitude, which he loved.

Optically, Contax has some great zooms. Here's a great starting point:


CONTAX 28-85 3.3-F4
--> This to me is the most USABLE Contax Zoom. It's very large, and very heavy, has great range, and has fantastic all manual focusing. The focus rotation is massive, easily btw 270 and 360 degrees. It's the lens Joe is talking about in his texts above. Zeiss in their literature on this lens state that they were trying to make this zoom essentially a variable prime, as the MTF ratings clearly show this lens being WICKED SHARP. At 28mm, it close focuses even better than the 28mm 2.8 prime.

This lens is FANTASTIC.


CONTAX 35-70 3.4
--> This is arguably Contax's most famous zoom. It's become something of a cult classic, because it's even more conservative and high performing than the 28-85. It's become quite popular with travel photographers, as stopped down it delivers massive resoltion for landscapes. Also, the MACRO function is between a 3:1 and 2:1 and is incredibly useful. The IQ on this lens is pretty insane. It's getting very, very hard to find, so get it now because in a year...it will be gone.

Also, the constant 3.4 aperture is very useful.

That being said, I still find the 28-85 more versatile for shooting.


CONTAX 80-200 F4
--> This lens is insanely cheap. You can get a perfectly clean one for $300. I'd argue it's one of the best $300 you'll ever spend on a lens or any piece of gear. It's not INSANELY sharp, the MTF charts place it just below the other zooms listed above, but the LOOK and IQ are through the roof. I use this lens ALL THE TIME. The focus rotation is like like the 28-85, from 270 to 360 degrees. Also it has a great Marco 4:1 function when you are at 200mm. Paired with the 28-85, this zoom is KILLER.


CONTAX 100-300 4.5-5.6
This is a very famous zoom. I've seen it referred to as "the 35-70 on steroids". Essentially, this zoom has MTF ratings that BLOW primes out of the water. It's quite slow, but the sharpness and IQ are supposed to be mind boggling. People like to pair it up with the 35-70 for a great one two punch. I've only used this zoom once, and I think it needed to be serviced, so I can't speak first hand about this one. But it's reputation precedes it. Priced usually way over $1000, if you can find one affordably, run don't walk to get it.


CONTAX N 17-35 2.8
WARNING!!! This is a Contax N lens. From Zeiss's very short lived AUTOFOCUS line. This zoom though is supposed to be AMAZING. It's frequently compared to the superb Nikon 17-35. The CONTAX N mount is extremely hard to adapt to ANYTHING. However, CONURUS in Vancouver (for $500) can completely replace the mount and make it EOS. If you find this lens affordably, I'd give it a shot.

Hope this helps!!!

 

[Timothy Jones]

Nick

Any of the awesome work you guys do on your site done with ziess contact?
You have sold me I bought a 50 and 85 1.4
yesterday. Now I have to wait for the leitex mounts to try them out.
Thanks
Tim

 

[Nick Morrison]

Nick

Any of the awesome work you guys do on your site done with ziess contact?
You have sold me I bought a 50 and 85 1.4
yesterday. Now I have to wait for the leitex mounts to try them out.
Thanks
Tim

All the "All You Can Eat" week stuf was shot on Zeiss Contax. As was a new pilot we have "Trouble with Charlie", but hasn't been posted. Some of the "Sundance Nutella" was shot on Contax, intermixed with Ultraprimes (believe it or not).

Yeah, start with the 50 and 85. See if you like em. The 35 1.4 is for when you're really serious. And again....these aren't everyone's cup of tea. I just happen to love them. That being said, Ive been working with Leica R's the past month as well, and those are doozies too.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Just a little note here to say that I helped Ryan De Franco participate in a little informal test recently, where we compared:

CONTAX ZEISS PRIMES to: SUPER SPEEDS and STANDARD PRIMES.

Much thanks to Steve Gall for helping out with this very informal, not highly scientific (but still 1/2 way serious) test.

Results? I'll let Ryan add his own 2 cents here, as it was really his test I was dropping in on, obvserving like a UN poll watcher, but here was the general "unscientific" first impressions:


1) The coatings for ALL OF THEM look REMARKABLY similar. We threw up some Cooke Speed Pancros for comparison, and the difference was shocking. The Contax, Supers and Standards are without a doubt PART OF THE SAME FAMILY. I brought a Hasselblad 50 2.8 (T* coating from same era) and same thing. SAME FAMILY.

The serial numbers for the Contax glass were all in the 6's. A mixture of AE and MM's. The STANDARDS serials were in the 69's (so very matching; the coating looked a BIT bluer, fyi, consistently on all the glass). These were MK IIs. The Supers were in the 79's (MK IIIs).

Flaring, etc was all VERY SIMILAR for these Zeisses.

Ryan went home and checked his R3D's and at 5.6 ALL THE LENSES LOOKED IDENTICAL at matching focal lengths. Except of course the Contax are worth a lot less...and cover 6K and beyond.


2) The Supers and Contax looked equally SOFT wide open.

3) The Standards were the sharpest wide open at T2. But have the smallest image circle. Pick your poison.

4) The Standards were a bit bluer than the Supers and Contax (makes sense, the coating looked bluer). I wonder if these Standards ever had their coating replaced. I'd like to check another set.

The Supers and Contax were warmer, with the Contax being a tad more so. Again, Ryan can speak more to this.


So the Contax glass did GREAT in this test. Lets not fool ourselves. They will never have the amazing markings and full blown cinema-mechanics of Zeiss MKII/MKIII Super Speeds or Standard Speeds. But if you cine-mod them properly they will get you alot of the way there, and cover 6K and beyond. They'll cover Dragon, and the sensor after that (assuming that one is 5D full frame).

So they are good buy if you LIKE the older Zeiss look. But you may not. You make like a modern, cleaner look that the ZF/ZE/CP2 family will give you. Which is a fine choice too. Their coatings are newer (more saturation, more contrast), and they have started to add some new designs (the 35f2, 50f2, etc that are all RAZOR SHARP; more designs are on the way). So this is not a question of what is better. Just a question of the options available.

Leica R's are amazing. Nikkor's are great. So MANY options. Contax are just one of them. As are Standards and Supers. If I had the cash, I'd probably buy a set of those too.

Hope this helps. Have fun shooting. Whatever glass you buy/like.

PS - please don't ask to see any R3D's as this was an informal test, and our incredibly generous model was there for 30mins quickly and was certainly not primed with makeup and hair in way she deserves if she's going to have a ton of people gawking at her test shots. One day, a real more scientific test will be done. This was just a quick, barebones test for our own edification...and now for yours.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Thanks Nick (and Ryan) this has become a great source of information and terrific feel good thread :yesnod: for Contax owners. Great work guys.

Best

Lliam

 

[Christopher Mills]

My mark I standards (no test post yet) also have a matching bluish coating.. yet are very flattering to human skin.

 

[Nick Morrison]

My mark I standards (no test post yet) also have a matching bluish coating.. yet are very flattering to human skin.

Oh cool! So I guess that's how Standards are! Awesome! Thanks for the info Chris.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Thanks Nick (and Ryan) this has become a great source of information and terrific feel good thread :yesnod: for Contax owners. Great work guys.

Best

Lliam

I agree, Liam...I have re-read this thread numerous times, and I get additional info each time. Thanks to all (especially Nick!!) who have willingly shared their knowledge of these great lenses. You've really helped me with the process of assembling my set!

 

[Nick Morrison]

I agree, Liam...I have re-read this thread numerous times, and I get additional info each time. Thanks to all (especially Nick!!) who have willingly shared their knowledge of these great lenses. You've really helped me with the process of assembling my set!

Tom your AE set is SICK!!! Those mods you are doing at RP lens look GREAT!!!!!

 

[Clayton Burkhart]

Even though many of the "Z" designs are directly inherited from Contax, the biggest difference in these new "Z" lenses was the coating. More modern and contrasty, the ZF/ZE line no loger had the "low con" look that was a signature of older Zeiss glass (think Standard Primes, etc).

Baloney. I have compared my 35/50/85 f1.4's against the ZF's and compact primes. They are all exactly the same in terms of sharpness and contrast. Wide open and stopped down. The only exception is the 50/1.4, which is actually worse on the more modern stuff.