Considering the Scarlet-X for a feature film - need this board's input

[Michael Yagupsky]

Hello people,

I'm in prep for a feature film and my DP and I are trying to decide on a camera - the Scarlet-X being one option among a few. We were very impressed with the test footage we shot, but were hoping to get a bit of input from some of the veteran users on this board. The film is part fiction, part documentary - with the latter aspect having a large impact on our choice of camera. Obviously, there are other cameras that are more purposefully oriented for that line of work, but we're attracted to the Scarlet's modularity, small size, and image quality above all.

Specifically, I wanted to know what you thought about:

1) Firmware stability - is the Scarlet stable enough to use for an observational documentary? Some DPs I know are hesitant to use a Red camera due to past experiences with cameras requiring reboots, re-installation of firmware, etc. on set. Is this (still) a problem, in your opinion?

2) Fan noise - How loud is it, after the various hardware and firmware updates? What effect does this have on sound recording in interior settings? And is on-camera microphone placement at all an option for sound recording - even as a reference track?

3) Light sensitivity - As we will be shooting with practicals and available light, I was wondering how people felt about the camera's light sensitivity. I know it doesn't see in the dark, and I don't mind a bit of grain - I'm just wondering about the feasibility of shooting with it in poorly-lit interiors and at dusk or moonlight, etc.

4) Energy consumption - how much power do you need to get through a day's shooting? There are obviously various solutions for this - but I'm wondering how you handle batteries and so on.


Thank you - much appreciated.

M'

 

[Brett Harrison]

Firmware is fine - the camera is stable for me after 305 hours of shooting on mine with a 50/50 split on 4x/5x firmware versions.

The new 'adaptive' mode maintains a hotter sensor (65 vs. 45 deg) and operates the fan on a thermostatic mode to keep it at that precise temp, which doesn't require a huge amount of RPM making it very good for audio recording (and improves noise for that matter).

If you're shooting in 1600 or 3200 levels then you will have to accept noise. Do some tests first.

Battery consumption means you will have to carry perhaps twice the weight or three times the weight of the camera for a 12-16 hour day continuous shoot (but that's a wild guess). I don't think it's excessive.

 

[Mike P.]

Firmware is fine; just go with the latest release build.

Fan noise is dependent on ambient temperature. Adaptive mode is by far the quietest, but if you're dealing with 30c/90f on a sunny day, it'll be louder than a lot of cameras (but shouldn't be so loud that you can't cope.)

It's not a low-light camera. Even it's 800ISO seems darker than most competitors (Canon, Sony, Arri, etc.) However, with downressing (4k to 1080p) and fast lenses (~T1.5) there aren't many scenarios that are so dark they're useless. The thing about ISO on RED cameras is that, if you don't have even minimum exposure, when you increase the ISO you're really only increasing noise. So if you're going low-light, get fast glass.

You will need three (probably four) 160Wh batteries, which last about 2-2.5 hours each and take about 2 hours to charge to 80%. I did a feature with only two and by the end of the day, was swapping them out every hour... With four, you'd able to record for 8 hours+ straight and/or leave the batteries on the charge until they're full, to constantly be able to swap.

 

[Ben Roper]

Personally I wouldn't even consider using RedVolts for power - The bricks are just too good. Use RedBricks and you won't regret it - 3 of them gets me through most days.

With regard to documentary, it really depends on what the light levels will be like - If you're outdoors in the day then you'll be absolutely fine. If it's night-time or indoors and dark you might struggle to run and gun with no lighting.

 

[Ben Roper]

Ps... For low light reference take a look at http://vimeo.com/84395974 - the scene from 2:45 was shot in near-darkness, 35mm f2, no noise reduction (apart from a careful grade). The location was a bridge over a motorway where we were above the streetlights. For reference it was impossible to read the script without a torch!

 

[Björn Benckert]

1 firmware is nothing to worry about it's been good since scarlet came out.
The testing and such was done during the epic m days before there was any scarlets.
2 if you get the new fans, especially top fan. I see this as a no issue. I have to push my ear up against the camera to hear that its on.
3 light sensitivity is what it is. To me mx preform really well in low light but as any camera the more light the better. If you shot similar lowlight stuff with any other camera and it will preform just as well.
4 If money is an issue i would get a couple of big vlocks with Dtap and and if you want to spend a little bit more then I would get also a side handle and 8 volts. then you got the benefits of the buttons on the side handle and also have 2 sources when the big battery runs out.
But make sure to get a power option so that you have aux power.

 

[Justin Batchelor]

I just say go for it. Hit the camera with V-Locks, set the fan to adaptive and be crafty with lighting. If you are low budget anyways, just have a small kit of lights with you just in case but if you make dramatic choices, it will pay off.

I shoot a lot of odd location mini doco stuff and when I feel brave, I feel happy not to have extra lights. As long as I am looking at what is around me, it works, 90% of the time.

 

[Louis Maddalena]

As others have said, the firmware is a non-issue. I have not yet had a firmware related meltdown on a Scarlet.

There will not be a fan issue if you have the latest firmware and the upgraded fan package.

The Scarlet is definitely not a low light camera, but as was said if you're creative with your shot placement with regard to where the light is naturally falling, possibly bring a small kit with you, and are creative with your grade, you shouldn't have a problem. Mix in with that you can always use some Neat Video noise reduction in post to get it cleaner if you really feel like the noise is not working. Just make sure prior to shooting you have made solid lense choices that are fast.

If I were shooting all day in a documentary setting, I would have 4-5 RedBricks, in addition to a 4 pack of Redvolts for the side handle. This allows you to be shooting and if you have to change a battery you can do so with out turing the camera off. Or if you're in the middle of recording something that is not staged and your battery is about to die your redvolt will take over for another 35-45 minutes or so. Allowing you to change the battery when you're able to. Also having the redvolts allows you to strip your camera down if you ever need to get it into a small location.

 

[PJ Porter]

Personally I wouldn't even consider using RedVolts for power - The bricks are just too good. Use RedBricks and you won't regret it - 3 of them gets me through most days.

With regard to documentary, it really depends on what the light levels will be like - If you're outdoors in the day then you'll be absolutely fine. If it's night-time or indoors and dark you might struggle to run and gun with no lighting.

I should've thought of this, before I made the Redvolt move; How long have you gone with the Brick before they gave out on you Ben?

 

[Louis Maddalena]

They usually last about 2- 2.5 hours. I almost always use a brick, but I like having the volts in the handle to allow for hot swapping.

 

[Owen Rennie]

I use Global media v mounts and 8 Redvoltsi pick up on here used. Power is never a problem and it was a very cheap solution

 

[Mike Garrick]

Having just done a 25 day shoot schedule for one, some observations....

1) Firmware stability, never had a problem, try to stay on the same firmware throughout the shoot . Never use betaware. Shoot compression 4K @ 6.1.

2) Fan noise - how long are your takes ? They are actors so you are not going to be rolling camera for huge takes....right. We set the cam. to fan 25% never had a problem with the hot hair dryer SFX kicking in midway through takes. ( this was without any fan upgrades)

3) Light sensitivity - It's a production camera it is not a see in the dark camera. I assume you are not shooting , Osama B. night op. situations. Scarlet can do the same as Epic in this area. You can capture some sweet stuff in lowlight. Never bump the ISO up in low light in fact take it down.

4) Energy consumption - 3 to 4, 160 V mounts per day plus some redvolts for go lightweight setups. We where also powering a paralynx off the v mount.

5) Slo mo is over rated, this camera is ideal for narrative storytelling.

6) Remember your deliverables imo. 2K is still king.

7) Have fun just do it & create some art.

 

[Ben Roper]

We have 3 bricks and have never run out in a day! As someone else mentioned they're good for a minimum of 2 hours - plus mine are two years old and still charge to 99%. Good quality POWAR

 

[Burke Doeren]

If low light is really a big element to this film, consider a faster zoom lens like the Sigma ART 18-35mm F/1.8, as well as Neat video de-noiser.

Christoffer Glans just an awesome writeup on how well you can de-noise EPIC footage here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?120575-Red-Epic-Noise-Reduction-test-at-ISO-12800.

Also, grab some quality battery-powered bi-color LED panels with diffusers. You'd be amazed at what a couple well-placed nice LEDs can do to supplement a practially-lit room.

 

[Christopher Mills]

I will only speak to your audio concerns.
Insist on the newest fan version, or the fanplate aftermarket mod. Otherwise you absolutely will hear the fan on your takes. It may not be as noisy as the first firmware/hardware combo, but it is indeed there, and it will cost you money to have it properly dealt with in a sound edit.
NEVER expect to get useable audio for a long form project out of a mic mounted to the camera, esp to a Red. At the very least, get a boom operator with a bag mixer/recorder, and send a cable to the camera if you insist on recording the production audio in the camera.
If you get a sound devices 633 for your project, and a quality shotgun and hyper package with wind protection to put on the boom, it will cover the vast majority of situations a run & gun narrative will encounter. You don't have to buy this package.. it can easily be rented and shipped to you. Better, book a good field audio mixing person. It will make your project sooo much better.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I will only speak to your audio concerns.
Insist on the newest fan version, or the fanplate aftermarket mod. Otherwise you absolutely will hear the fan on your takes. It may not be as noisy as the first firmware/hardware combo, but it is indeed there, and it will cost you money to have it properly dealt with in a sound edit.
NEVER expect to get useable audio for a long form project out of a mic mounted to the camera, esp to a Red. At the very least, get a boom operator with a bag mixer/recorder, and send a cable to the camera if you insist on recording the production audio in the camera.
If you get a sound devices 633 for your project, and a quality shotgun and hyper package with wind protection to put on the boom, it will cover the vast majority of situations a run & gun narrative will encounter. You don't have to buy this package.. it can easily be rented and shipped to you. Better, book a good field audio mixing person. It will make your project sooo much better.

I've been shooting 100% RED for over 3 years...mostly on camera talent with sound...and so far never had issue with fans...though as you suggest/advise...we've always used pro sound guys operating Booms and Lavs....far away from camera. We've patched reference sound into CAMs, which has always been super helpful!

But agreed, I would't recommed running and gunning with a mic attached to top of cam...and expect to get 100% reliable audio. Not just because of fans, but simply because it's hard to ride audio "levels" (ie mix) while also trying to chase down talent!

best