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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Consensus request: How much should be expected of focus pullers today?

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Rob_Austin

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Hi everyone, please weigh in if you have enough varied set experience to know...

I recently worked on a project where the image consisted of:

- Run and gun shooting, with no shot list and zero rehearsals, documentary style, finding the moments
- ~3-4 stop underexposure on very dark skinned faces, I'm talking Wesley Snipes, Lupita N'yongO, etc...
- ~2-3 stop underexposure on most of the sets, background walls also. Overall very lowcon flat and very
dark, pushing the limits of the sensor, probably with the intent to boost in post
- Operator on EZ rig with a 30-80 zoom, Alexa
- Constantly moving camera, side to side, pushing in and out, crash zooming, and rapidly panning btw actors, etc...
- 50% or more of shots were within the close focus (2') to 4' range
- And the director wanted/expected the image to remain sharp for the whole take.

The AC was about 60-70% on keeping it sharp. Soft on quite a few segments, the edit will likely miss some of them.

The question is: Is this the new norm of expectations for those who pull focus?
 
It depends on how much movement was going on for real there. Also pretty-much depends on a lens choise and the playback monitor for the AC. Colors of the scene are also up to concideration. Was the AC supposed to constantly move or was sitting in one place with a monitor on a c-stand.

My guess is about 80% in focus on lenses below 50mm is what i'd expext from a qualified focus-puller for a calm situation. If he's supposed to move - it goes up to 50% in focus, and if he's supposed to work on a longer lens in-close, i'd say it'll go up to 40% or less.

No rehearshals, no idea of what you want to achieve - a dumb way to expect the crew will work fine.
 
By the way, being "out of focus" can be vastly different. Like being a little soft and this looks in style, or just fully miss the thing with a distracting focus-throws in different ways.

In dark situations it might be easier to work "old style" - by meters, not monitor.
 
Keeping 8K VV in focus with a 1080 tap...

Keeping 8K VV in focus with a 1080 tap...

Just spent a day pulling for an EZ Rig "floating" camera run 'n' gun shoot on a UP 50mm @ a 2/2.8 split and a 25mm MP at 1.3 and some 2.0. My tack sharp focus percentage was not much better than 50%, but I had a good sense of what "moments" needed to play and when a rack to the facial reaction was desired. I also had a DP and director who knew better than to expect perfect focus throughout.

There are a few, 5-10 I'd guess, pullers who could ride 95%+ sharps even with a mobile camera and wide stops. For mere mortals, even guys like me who have been walking focus for decades, a choice to go "cowboy" at stops that provide less than 3" of critical focus plane should be undertaken with the creative intent to have a dreamier feel and/or "fishing" for magic moments. Either that, or rehearsals, marks and multiple takes...

Pulling on the VV frame is going to require a whole new level of precision than most of us are accustomed to. Fortunately, the development of more sophisticated focus assist tools is moving pretty fast these days, so I can imagine a hybrid of auto/manual may be a viable approach very soon. I'd love a hand controller that would mechanically turn the knob per auto-focus AND allow me to override manually as desired.

Since we're on the subject, I'd sure love a dedicated UHD/4K tap from camera just for the focus puller like on Panavision's Millennium DXL. Peaking, color fringing, contrast push, etc can be customized just for that feed without affecting the other outputs. At the very least, particularly with larger frames, a live UHD/4K output from camera to give the puller a fighting chance has become more necessity than nicety. Really looking forward to the first expander module capable of low latency UHD/4K live output. OffHollywood/Vitec/SD/etc - game on!

Cheers - #19
 
Unfortunately, that doesn't sound too far off from what a lot of productions are expecting from their 1st AC's. I don't know if I would go so far as to call that a norm, but it's definitely an expectation that a modern day 1st AC can handle that type of stress.
 
Marcus Friedlander said:
Unfortunately, that doesn't sound too far off from what a lot of productions are expecting from their 1st AC's. I don't know if I would go so far as to call that a norm, but it's definitely an expectation that a modern day 1st AC can handle that type of stress.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I give a lot of difficult situations to my 1st's but it's also my job to push back on anyone else if they start giving flack about focus. I always try and sneak in a rehearsal with a stand-in if I know roughly what my moves are. I came up on ultra-low budget sketch videos shooting super speeds wide open, few rehearsals if any. Monitors weren't quite there yet and early digital could only monitor in SD so I quickly learned to go by feel and distance markers. I've shared that story with a few of my 1st's and they are putting an effort in learning that, but I also now know to make sure production gives over a few extra $$$ for a nice AC monitor. Little old, little new, and things work fairly well.

Back to to the point, I think your AC probably did a fine job based on what you're saying. One stop+start rehearsal with a stand-in can really up that % though.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Pulling on the VV frame is going to require a whole new level of precision than most of us are accustomed to. Fortunately, the development of more sophisticated focus assist tools is moving pretty fast these days, so I can imagine a hybrid of auto/manual may be a viable approach very soon. I'd love a hand controller that would mechanically turn the knob per auto-focus AND allow me to override manually as desired.
Click to expand...

I don't actually think VV is going to be that horrific. There's basically just a one stop difference between VV and S35mm in terms of depth of field at equivalent FoVs. So if you're shooting T/2.8 on VV it's no worse than T/2 on S35mm, and T/2 is no worse than T/1.3 on S35mm - which (tough as it is) everyone's being doing for a while now.

God help the poor bastards asked to shoot T/1.5 on VV though. That's just cruel.
 
In that kind of run and gun environment, you get what you get. Even the best guys can have a bad day, so it is what it is.

On big productions I have seen people fired for missing a beat when an actor leaned in and then back in a close up. Giving your AC the time and help to get whatever he/she needs to make the shot work is important. The Operator should stand up for the AC and give them time. Sometimes it's just a bitch. Although my AC thinks I torture him, If I have a stop or two to give him on a hard shot I always try to. It's a team effort.

Nick
 
Let's not lose sight (sic) of the difference between run'n'gun on a gimbal vs planned shots with marks. IMO it's also worth noting that using short DOF for motion work has primarily been the province of A level feature/spot crews using S35 format until very recently. Run'n'gun was the province of 2/3" sensors or smaller - and I'd wager still is by volume. VV WFO on fast primes should be, ah, interesting... ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
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