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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Concern with Scarlet

S

shaunt

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Does anyone know how much storage it would require to archive 3k footage? The camera seems amazing and the price is fantastic, although I would prefer to have the scarlet [with the lens] as it was first described, being out of the box ready. My only concern is how much money will I have to dish out for hard drives. Any help would be appreciated.

Shaun
 
A tiny percentage compared to the cost of the camera- I'd get an LTO-3 or 4 drive and be done with it... That's $2K for the drive and then $50 / 400 GB tape.

Noah
 
Does it matter what brand LTO-3 drive to get? What would you suggest? Also how much footage can be stored on a 400GB tape shooting at 3K resolution? I am a newbie to all of this so this might be a stupid question. By archiving to this LTO tape does it make it more difficult to grab footage from your archive and use it in future projects? Is it like working with DV tape where you have to shuffle through it to find the clips you need. I currently own a HVX200 and I like working with hard drives, because I can just grab the clip and put it onto my timeline.

Thanks,

Shaun

Thanks,

Shaun
 
I too recommend a LTO-3 or 4. I just picked up a used LTO 2 drive (200gb per tape) and am very happy with the process. It is not at all like working with DV tape. This is data backup and therefore much more time consuming to retrieve the data back off the tape. However, it is the only method I would recommend to archive footage.
 
How much footage can be stored on one of these tapes?

Shaun
 
According the iSee4K iphone application, 4K 16x9 Redcode36 at 24fps will be 113Gigs per hour. I imagine Redcode 80 will be more than double that. So the bigger the tape the better. LTO4 is 800 Gigs uncompressed per tape. LTO3 is 400 and LTO2 is 200.
 
A $2,000 zip drive? Fifteen years ago when zip drives became obsolete they cost like $200!

If it were me I'd buy a $30 DVD burner or if you really wanted to save shelf space and fit as much as possible on one disc, a $150 Bluray burner although the blank Blurays are rather expensive at least for the time being.
 
shaunt said:
Does it matter what brand LTO-3 drive to get? What would you suggest? Also how much footage can be stored on a 400GB tape shooting at 3K resolution? I am a newbie to all of this so this might be a stupid question. By archiving to this LTO tape does it make it more difficult to grab footage from your archive and use it in future projects? Is it like working with DV tape where you have to shuffle through it to find the clips you need. I currently own a HVX200 and I like working with hard drives, because I can just grab the clip and put it onto my timeline.

Thanks,

Shaun

Thanks,

Shaun
Click to expand...
HI Shaun, there's been a lot of activity about archiving footage on Ultrium LTO4 and LTO3 tape drives on the REDUSER.NET forums here. (see below)

what platform (OS) do you use where you want to perform archive/backup?

I too have an HVX-200 . I archive all the native P2 essence and the PROJECTS etc on Ultrium LTO4 data tape using BRU-PE archive software and .

How much 3K footage? -
I have not seen a definitive range of bitrates for Scarlet I guess it depends on the model. DOes someone have a list?

HOwever using as example, current REDONE R3D upper as the limit @ 288Mbs, then it is quite simple to state that on an Ultrium LTO4 tape medium at 800GB native (uncompressed) you will get near enough to 370minutes.

= ((800*1000)/(288/8))/60 mins

NOte that this is WITHOUT the proxy files. Easy to work that out too.

Thus for an ULTRIUM LLTO3 with a native capacity of 400GB you would get half of this which is 185 minutes of current R3D with NO PROXY.

where to look for info on this subject:
I'd really recommend you look within this forum at these excellent links and the other forums regarding the usage of Ultrium LTO4/3, the HBA's needed and the software for archiving that are here.

This will save you loads of time and answer a lot of your questions.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21284
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24522
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17496
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7556 (very long and detailed thread)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23545
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=155693
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=114778&page=2

All this is very good stuff and will save you loads of time.

Yes several of us have working solutions using Ultrium LTO as a cost effective archive solution using BRU-PE and certain (take care here!) hardware configurations.

POst or PM any questions you have. THis works great!

hth
w
 
Hard drives are really cheap these days ($100 for 1 TB), so just buy a hard drive to edit the movie on, and when you are done, put the drive on a shelf. If you ever want to tweak the edit, etc., you always have it, and you don't have to deal with tape.

1 TB should hold about 13 hours of 3k footage at 24 fps.
 
Lee Saxon said:
A $2,000 zip drive? Fifteen years ago when zip drives became obsolete they cost like $200!

If it were me I'd buy a $30 DVD burner or if you really wanted to save shelf space and fit as much as possible on one disc, a $150 Bluray burner although the blank Blurays are rather expensive at least for the time being.
Click to expand...

That's not good enough for archiving.
 
Chris Newman said:
Hard drives are really cheap these days ($100 for 1 TB), so just buy a hard drive to edit the movie on, and when you are done, put the drive on a shelf. If you ever want to tweak the edit, etc., you always have it, and you don't have to deal with tape.

1 TB should hold about 13 hours of 3k footage at 24 fps.
Click to expand...

I recommend this approach for the budget-conscious.

I'm using an eSATA/FireWire HDD Dock for quick and convenient access to my archives, and cardboard HDD storage boxes to keep the drives neat and tidy.
 
Chris Newman said:
Hard drives are really cheap these days ($100 for 1 TB), so just buy a hard drive to edit the movie on, and when you are done, put the drive on a shelf. If you ever want to tweak the edit, etc., you always have it, and you don't have to deal with tape.

1 TB should hold about 13 hours of 3k footage at 24 fps.
Click to expand...

I think this says it all that the feeling is Disks (SATA ones) are cheap. It is true that they (PATA, SATA ddm's) fail regularly (failing twice in a YEAR is regularly). I'd expect like years gone by that their MTBF decreases with price. Contrast with others such as DDMs that are SAS based and performance aside you pay for what you get.

For long term archiving for your business workflow, el cheapo disks don't cut it....

Some readers dont want or cannot afford expensive enterprise disk array system based on SAS or other technologies that use really cool expensive DISK arrays controllers with excellent highly available transforms and logic for rebuild/reconstruction, loads od spar DDms and big ranks and power supplies that compensate at least for some of the slackness in some OS's file systems. I certainly dont want to shell out €15000+ for one with the works just so I don't lose stuff and also have a large electricity bill to wit.

IF you want to run a creative business that at least keeps ones head above water and rice in your bowl that needs to utilise your own archive footage and projects that you need to access somewhat or hardly at all, then these elcheapo usb, fw and sata disk that spin around aimlessly are not the way to go. Nor are BD's/DVD's and other things that scratch and have lousy data rates.

Amongst some of the reasonable solutions like CONTENT CLOUD STORAGE (something is available and reasonable access and rates in ASIA) and that data tape drives are part of the way there too.

Simply these elcheapo disks are very unreliable. The movement from 500GB+ to 2TB today and further under $USD50 (as they will be in 2010), then you have to maintain many instances of your content. ( = double or more of your disk farm).

Others have better DISK only stories and keep there nusiness running sucessfully on these elcheapo disks. I'm sure they manage these very well as they would have too. Spinning disks down and up is hurtful to them). Copan Systems http://copansystems.com/) has this down pat btw. IF you have a buch of these and haven't tried them for some time, best go and power them up and give them a shake.

HAve DISKWARRIOR etc on hand and a stiff drink to boot.:nerd:

The big creative guys dont seem to do keeptheir stuff on these el cheapo disks with little FW and USB disks and if you are a small guy (business wise) you dont have to do it either.

Sure cheap may be good but it is not better. Especially if you are running a business and you lose your content and your business suffers

I'm many with a sad story using lots of those dreadful LeCIe FW disks (4 x 1TB last year) and wont be burnt again with these elcheap disks used for long term business archive.
(EOR - end of rant).

If your interested in using tape drives (which work so well) search these forums for LTO4 ULTRIUM ARCHIVE BACKUP.

HTH

w
 
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