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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Compression Woes

Arthur Woo

Arthur Woo

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Trying to get a video to look decent on youtube's 360p.

I've read through several threads and tried various things...on HD on YouTube it looks pretty good, close to the rendered file. Yet when it hits 360p it looks like such ass. I've seen 360p videos from high end productions that look pretty good - no doubt they really know what they're doing for delivering these vids to all these formats.

Exporting from Premiere CS5.5. 1 Pass, at 40 is the target bitrate. Client had a limited file size on their youtube account so we had to limit the resolution of the file down to 720p. Not ideal, I know.

Any hints from compression experts? This is for an ultra low budget project where most people worked for free or for a fraction of their day rates, so there wasn't much in the way of post as far as budgeting for someone to come in an help out with this. Any advice appreciated

Vid for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRvoN3HGjiI
 
Try doing more than one pass. 2 pass VBR is what I generally do. Helps remove blockiness and obvious artifacting while still keeping file sizes reasonable. And try X264 as opposed to H264...as more than one mentor has recommended it for it's improved color fidelity and general look. I'm liking the results so far anyway.
 
Thanks Nick. After reading up on the 2 pass VBR, I understood it (but let me know if I'm wrong) as it having to do more with a smaller file size, where it will use less bit-rate for parts of the video that need less and parts that need more get more, vs 1 pass which will give the same bitrate to everything in the file. Assuming that's the case, do you know why the quality would be better than a 1 pass, if in the 1 pass everything is the same target bitrate?

I did read up on x264 as well, and using an external program like Squeeze to render vs using Premiere. Unfortunately the video is going live soon and they've already uploaded it and starting to disseminate the link to various outlets, so the only benefit at this point would be to have the best quality for my own reel/site. I will definitely compare the x264 though when I am on my workstation again.
 
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Arthur Woo said:
Thanks Nick. After reading up on the 2 pass VBR, I understood it (but let me know if I'm wrong) as it having to do more with a smaller file size, where it will use less bit-rate for parts of the video that need less and parts that need more get more, vs 1 pass which will give the same bitrate to everything in the file. Assuming that's the case, do you know why the quality would be better than a 1 pass, if in the 1 pass everything is the same target bitrate?

I did read up on x264 as well, and using an external program like Squeeze to render vs using Premiere. Unfortunately the video is going live soon and they've already uploaded it and starting to disseminate the link to various outlets, so the only benefit at this point would be to have the best quality for my own reel/site. I will definitely compare the x264 though when I am on my workstation again.
Click to expand...

2 pass is probably just more efficient. In my experience the key is to avoid CBR. Constant Bit Rate. That is your enemy. VBR will allow you to adjust compression as you need it. Ie scenes with lots of contrast get much more data, and easy scenes get less (as needed). I indeed do use Squeeze every day (its the standard compression tool at the large network where I work...a billion dollar company)..and in Squeeze VBR is generally paired at highest quality with 2Pass. They seem to go hand in hand. In my experience at least in Squeeze, 2pass VBR is the jam. I work with very challenging material shot in the forests of Oregon and Alaska, and nothing kills compression worse than this. High contrast, lots of details, its digital murder. 2 Pass VBR seems to handle with aplomb. 1 Pass CBR is like Chernobyle - a digital explosion of artifacting and artifacting that looks so blocky you think your looking a Calecovision.

Hope this helps!
 
Nick Morrison said:
2 pass is probably just more efficient. In my experience the key is to avoid CBR. Constant Bit Rate. That is your enemy. VBR will allow you to adjust compression as you need it. Ie scenes with lots of contrast get much more data, and easy scenes get less (as needed). I indeed do use Squeeze every day (its the standard compression tool at the large network where I work...a billion dollar company)..and in Squeeze VBR is generally paired at highest quality with 2Pass. They seem to go hand in hand. In my experience at least in Squeeze, 2pass VBR is the jam. I work with very challenging material shot in the forests of Oregon and Alaska, and nothing kills compression worse than this. High contrast, lots of details, its digital murder. 2 Pass VBR seems to handle with aplomb. 1 Pass CBR is like Chernobyle - a digital explosion of artifacting and artifacting that looks so blocky you think your looking a Calecovision.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Very much so, thanks for the insight! I've only used Squeeze for a test and it was outside of my comfort zone as far as workflow, so I haven't used it since, but will have to spend some time with it to get an improvement.
 
Arthur Woo said:
Very much so, thanks for the insight! I've only used Squeeze for a test and it was outside of my comfort zone as far as workflow, so I haven't used it since, but will have to spend some time with it to get an improvement.
Click to expand...

PS to be clear, when you use 2Pass VBR Squeeze does the calculations automoatically. That's why I think the 2pass is important. The first pass is probably getting a sense of what shots need more or less. And the second pass it really fine tunes what it needs. Add in X264 and its a pretty fierce combo.

For 1080, try and stay at 10,000 kps and above.

For 720, 6000 and above.

Hope this helps!
 
Nick Morrison said:
PS to be clear, when you use 2Pass VBR Squeeze does the calculations automoatically. That's why I think the 2pass is important. The first pass is probably getting a sense of what shots need more or less. And the second pass it really fine tunes what it needs. Add in X264 and its a pretty fierce combo.

For 1080, try and stay at 10,000 kps and above.

For 720, 6000 and above.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
is x264 available in Media Encoder? Ive not heard of it before.
 
Jason Kraynek said:
is x264 available in Media Encoder? Ive not heard of it before.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. I believe it's a separate purchase. There are a few versions from what I recall, x264pro being one of them. It's $300 though. Not sure when I will pull the trigger but some online tests look pretty revealing..
 
gotcha, will look into it also. thanks sir
 
In order to get really optimum results you will need an app that lets you access the finer controls of the encoder. There are ways to optimize settings based on content, so for example if you have a lot of motion in your video vs. static shots. Generally speaking though you should be able to get decent results from Youtube presets within the encoding software. Maybe a tweak to bitrate, keyframe spacing, etc.

I started this thread a while back and it would be good to get it going again with some current techniques for compression.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?69957-The-Art-of-Compression-and-Encoding
 
Steve Sherrick said:
In order to get really optimum results you will need an app that lets you access the finer controls of the encoder. There are ways to optimize settings based on content, so for example if you have a lot of motion in your video vs. static shots. Generally speaking though you should be able to get decent results from Youtube presets within the encoding software. Maybe a tweak to bitrate, keyframe spacing, etc.

I started this thread a while back and it would be good to get it going again with some current techniques for compression.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?69957-The-Art-of-Compression-and-Encoding
Click to expand...
Ya ... that's for sure to get that thread going again.

I was told that Sony's high end compression package for film distribution is now available through a sony cloud service which is fairly inexpensive. Is something i really need to learn about.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Are you referring to this? https://www.sonymcs.com/free5gb-signup/?gclid=CJ_o35zc2bsCFe3m7AodjBkAEw
Click to expand...
I think that must be it, i have not joined in ... I was just told about it. I really liked sony's high end distribution package, allowed very flexable compression ... you can really tell when some HD content is really good, while other just looks horible. It use to be sophisticated to use, so not sure if the interface changed.


note: ... was just able to add a free account ... pretty cool interface now. (i think the compression is in "CI MEDIABOX", but can't find how to do that with the free account.
 
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Nick Morrison said:
FYI I believe Sorenson Squeeze still comes bundled with Avid Media Composer...
Click to expand...
A version of it does but not sure which version comes bundled with Media Composer 7. With MC 6.5 I got Squeeze 8.1. I then had to do an upgrade to 8.5. I haven't done the MC 7 upgrade yet but if it comes standard with Squeeze 9 that's pretty great. Still some things lacking in Squeeze 9 but some improvements too.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
In order to get really optimum results you will need an app that lets you access the finer controls of the encoder. There are ways to optimize settings based on content, so for example if you have a lot of motion in your video vs. static shots. Generally speaking though you should be able to get decent results from Youtube presets within the encoding software. Maybe a tweak to bitrate, keyframe spacing, etc.

I started this thread a while back and it would be good to get it going again with some current techniques for compression.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?69957-The-Art-of-Compression-and-Encoding
Click to expand...


thanks for the help Steve! I will definitely be going through this when I get some down time in the next day
 
never heard of squeeze before
going to check it out

Does that mean you guys render as loseless or something similar and then use squeeze?
 
Note Suwanchote said:
never heard of squeeze before
going to check it out

Does that mean you guys render as loseless or something similar and then use squeeze?
Click to expand...

yes export a high rez quicktime and load into Squeeze. You can also export a quictime "reference" and load that into Squeeze too.
 
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