Coming out of Beta...

[Ketch Rossi]

Done that, Donatello still very short.

Thanks for the suggestion and I have to say that I was surprised that RED had decided to be so good about this and credit the full amount of my deposits to the purchase of the first camera package, great thing in deed.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

 

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

great news .redteam are great people .no other one will do something
likethat .:biggrin:

 

[Casey Green]

Jim, Brent, & Jarred:

Thanks for the updates on the status of the firmware releases. We are very much looking forward to getting our EVF as soon as it is available.

We are very interested in the details of the multiple outputs, as this is a function very important to our plans going forward.

As I understand it, there is one signal that would be output to both the LCD and the EVF. If the EVF runs in a higher res than the LCD, it would seem that either a higher res LCD would be the solution, or when the EVF+LCD option is enabled, perhaps the EVF res is brought down to match the LCD, resulting in quality loss in the EVF.

This is just speculation. Can you explain how this will be done, so we can start planning on our production needs? Will we need a higher res LCD to maintain the EVF's resolution? How does this all work?

Thanks for any light you can shed.

 

[Jarred Land]

720p is the common output that will work for your external LCD connected through the HD-SDI.. Marshall, Astro and Panasonic are the ones that most people use, that all have HD-SDI inputs ( and most have loop through outputs so you can chain off to other monitors as well ). If you need to buy one of those because you must have all outputs, i would try a few different setups if you can to see what works best for you, as they all have different strengths and weaknesses.

Once all outputs are working though i think most people are going to be very happy with our monitor, our LCD has dedicated buttons for monitor switching ( you can press a button on the LCD and it will toggle between the last output and the LCD) and it is the lightest, most compact option by far. It also takes power from the camera with the same cable and port that the video goes through, so you dont need to add batteries or pull from the D-tap with a separate cable. That and its one of the best outdoor monitors out there.

 

[Paul Nordin]

Once all outputs are working though i think most people are going to be very happy with our monitor, our LCD has dedicated buttons for monitor switching ( you can press a button on the LCD and it will toggle between the last output and the LCD) and it is the lightest, most compact option by far. That and its one of the best outdoor monitors out there.

Hi Jarred,
I had the pleasure of shooting with Donatello's #103 last weekend. Combined with some Cooke S4s, I was loving the look. I agree with most of what you are saying about your little LCD. The only issue I had with it was it's off-access viewing angle is very limited. Much more so than what I'm used to with the market leading models. It required a lot of neck craning on dolly moves and big pans to be able to keep my line of sight within the LCD's comfort zone. I will say that when viewed on-access, the image is bright, sharp, and lovely.
Cheers,
Paul

 

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

I've not used the RED LCD, but from it's specs I'd agree with you Jarred.

If it's going to be used like that, it won't be connected to the camera; it'll be in someone's hands, and they'll likely carry it around constantly. I'm wondering if there is any milage in making a little protective jacket for it, and a sunshield?
Also on your store website it's still not clear that it can be used like that and that you should buy x cable as an accessory etc.

Just a thought.. Happy Sunday

 

[Casey Green]

720p is the common output that will work for your external LCD connected through the HD-SDI.. Marshall, Astro and Panasonic are the ones that most people use, that all have HD-SDI inputs ( and most have loop through outputs so you can chain off to other monitors as well ). If you need to buy one of those because you must have all outputs, i would try a few different setups if you can to see what works best for you, as they all have different strengths and weaknesses.

Once all outputs are working though i think most people are going to be very happy with our monitor, our LCD has dedicated buttons for monitor switching ( you can press a button on the LCD and it will toggle between the last output and the LCD) and it is the lightest, most compact option by far. It also takes power from the camera with the same cable and port that the video goes through, so you dont need to add batteries or pull from the D-tap with a separate cable. That and its one of the best outdoor monitors out there.

Thanks Jarred. Yes, we understand about the HD-SDI options.

The question remaining is, will we be able to use our current RED LCD + RED EVF (which should be arriving very soon) simultaneously? And if so, how is this accomplished if they each need separate resolutions?

 

[Jarred Land]

Thanks Jarred. Yes, we understand about the HD-SDI options.

The question remaining is, will we be able to use our current RED LCD + RED EVF (which should be arriving very soon) simultaneously? And if so, how is this accomplished if they each need separate resolutions?

yes they will.. in an upcoming build. it is accomplished by some engineering magic and crafty scaling, which is why its taking longer.

 

[Antoine Fabi]

The BOMB SQUAD is getting to emails as quickly as they can. And, remember, they are standing by their phones from 8am-5pm PT, Monday-Friday. Feel free to call in if you have any questions.

We have also announced in other threads that the online is under the revision process to more easily accommodate at once orders. We spent a long time only in the "deposit" world so we are updating to be easier for "buy now" for people having cameras already and pending delivery.

We are prepping an email blast now to #301-#500 letting them know the information you seek.

Hope that helps,
BC

Thanks Brent,

I received a corrected "Updated Order Details".

Now everything is 100% OK. Camera 403 and accessories, minus deposit and credit.

Now, time to pay !

thanks

Antoine

 

[Martin Drew]

Jim said here

...You do have the option to wait until all features are enabled to take delivery at no consequence to you (if you have that much patience). We will hold your camera (same serial number) and ship when feature set is complete...

Jay started a thread with this post Where he said

I can't believe I am saying this, but I am considering taking Jim up on his offer to hold off delivery of the camera until all the needed elements are available.

In my case that would be the Nikon mount, the EVF, RED Drive and REDCine for Windows....

Ericyoung queried Jays reading of Jims original post here

As I understand Jim's quote it refers to camera body features not the accessories.

....Need RED team to clarify this!

Jim responded with his clarification here

....You certainly have the option to wait for EVERYTHING to be complete and not accept your camera or pay your money until that time. But I would expect that to be fairly soon. I WANT anyone that is nervous to wait. I do NOT want anyone to complain about being a part of development and be frustrated. Everyone so far has been told that they are taking cameras that are not done and have been given the choice to wait. No one has accepted the "wait until done part". But you certainly can....Hope that helps.

Jim

I just thought it was worth putting some history to this as Jarred and Brent are now saying that you will not retain your serial number if you want to wait for the things Jay mentioned in his post. That seems to be a different message than the one Jim gave, but I suppose everything changes...

For the record I don't want to wait with my camera.

M

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Some good points Martin,

I too don't want to wait and would love nothing more then be part ( or have been part ) of the beta initial testing.


Unfortunately as it stands, I just don't have the economics available to take delivery and I surely also was under the impression that I could wait till ready and surely not losing my res.#s


Also it seems a bit confusing after reading the posts started by Jim offering extension till MARCH 1st. were it is not clear if definitive answer of intention to purchase is extended to that date, those leave the additional 30 days to make full payment therefore taking you to APRIL 1st.


I have been asked (do to my situation) if instead of loosing the serial number, sale RED#349 as I would be moved to the end of the line anyway with a different serial number. But I have not made reservations to profit from it by selling the cameras.


I have made the reservations because I truly have enbraced RED and trust the Camera and the Support behind it, and want nothing more then get them and start shooting my projects.

All this said, I stand behind all the decisions RED makes, just don't want to loose my RES.#


Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

 

[david farland]

Ketch,
Agreed. I asked a similiar question on the 'Beta poilcy thread' and hopefully one of us will get a reply.
I guess the thing isn't all about your finances being stretched or not...it's whether at the time of purchase, the missing options will cost you.
I think Jim has done enough giving us a camera which will provide us with ample potential for financial return...probably has..and we could make do until the rest comes.
On the other side...every bit of functionality, time helps if your circumstances dictate.
I'd say he's gone as far as he should/will with final orders on 1 March...30 days to pay, 1st April.

Dave

Jim,
Up to this post I figured we had till 1st Mar to pay for our agreed order anyway.

Are you now saying we have 1st Mar to place our final orders and then 30 days to pay for this order?

Dave,

 

[Casey Green]

yes they will.. in an upcoming build. it is accomplished by some engineering magic and crafty scaling, which is why its taking longer.

Great, thanks for that. This is what we were hoping to hear!

 

[chuckt]

We are coming out of Beta into full production. Build 14 is the 1st step. Build 15 is the final step.

Build 14 should be released Feb. 1 and Build 15 by March 1st.

Jim

Jim,
The best policy would be to put as many cameras in the hands of people as you possibly can make, as soon as possible.
You can fix the bugs later and upgrade the early adopter's cameras later.
Let the world see the first version of RED in the hands of professionals.
do not wait until all the bugs are fixed.
I placed an order and then I cancelled it because I did not want to wait many months.
I would have accepted an imperfect camera NOW, because I wanted to use it NOW.

The advantage of RED is that it can use 35 mm PL mount lenses with shallow DOF. This market advantage will be available only until the competition floods the market with similar cameras. Sony and Panasonic are both coming out with 35-mm size single chip cameras. For example Sony F35.

4K is not a real advantage because we do not have enough post production or projection capacity for 4K at this time. However, your competition will soon catch up with you in this regard also.

The low cost is a great advantage. But, this advantage too will vanish when the competition ramp up their production. Prices always go down in electronics.

Your choice of the sensor might be responsible for many of the reported image quality problems. If necessary source another sensor from a reputable (Korean / Taiwanese) manufacturer.

The over-heating problem can also be solved by similar means.

But, put the current version with all its imperfections, in the hands of thousands of professionals fast. Now there is a market. Do not let it disappear under fast changing electronics market evolution.

This is my 2 cents.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Jim,
The best policy would be to put as many cameras in the hands of people as you possibly can make, as soon as possible.
You can fix the bugs later and upgrade the early adopter's cameras later.
Let the world see the first version of RED in the hands of professionals.
do not wait until all the bugs are fixed.
I placed an order and then I cancelled it because I did not want to wait many months.
I would have accepted an imperfect camera NOW, because I wanted to use it NOW.

The advantage of RED is that it can use 35 mm PL mount lenses with shallow DOF. This market advantage will be available only until the competition floods the market with similar cameras. Sony and Panasonic are both coming out with 35-mm size single chip cameras. For example Sony F35.

4K is not a real advantage because we do not have enough post production or projection capacity for 4K at this time. However, your competition will soon catch up with you in this regard also.

Your choice of the Israeli made sensor (you code named it Mysterium) might be responsible for many of the reported image quality problems. This same sensor was discontinued from the Kodak still cameras becuase of poor image quality.
Try to source another sensor from a reputable (Korean / Taiwanese) manufacturer. They will be able to manufacture your circuit boards also with better specs (with less heat generation.) Israel is not a good source for electronic goods.

This is my 2 cents.

Huh...Is that last paragraph fact or is it meant to cause a stir? I didn't realize this information had ever been made public. Can you site your source on that?

Steve

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Also Sony and Panasonic have shown very little signs that they will make a market correction in terms of pricing their high end cameras. At least not enough to compete with Red at this moment. That could change but haven't seen a 35mm chipped camera from either of them, not to mention one that drops below the $100K mark. And I like Sony and Panasonic. But just want to stick with facts these days.

Steve

 

[Jannard]

Jim,

4K is not a real advantage because we do not have enough post production or projection capacity for 4K at this time. However, your competition will soon catch up with you in this regard also.

Your choice of the Israeli made sensor (you code named it Mysterium) might be responsible for many of the reported image quality problems. This same sensor was discontinued from the Kodak still cameras becuase of poor image quality.
Try to source another sensor from a reputable (Korean / Taiwanese) manufacturer. They will be able to manufacture your circuit boards also with better specs (with less heat generation.) Israel is not a good source for electronic goods.

This is my 2 cents.

Not sure what exactly your point is... but your facts are pretty twisted.

I think the quality of our image sensor has never been questioned. Our ability to tame it might be, but looking at footage shot on "Mysterium" seems to indicate we are ahead of the game.

I don't ever remember seeing Kodak, or any company for that matter, having a 4K 60fps sensor like ours. Your "shot in the dark" comments about how and where are sensor is made will not warrant a response. Nice try though.

And I am quite sure Sony will have a full frame sensor in their F35. We never expected to be the only game in town. But I thought I heard their F35 will sell for $350K... maybe I heard wrong?

Last thought... you always want to shoot highest resolution possible no matter what the final output is for best quality.

Jim

 

[Deanan]

And I am quite sure Sony will have a full frame sensor in their F35. We never expected to be the only game in town. But I thought I heard their F35 will sell for $350K... maybe I heard wrong?

Jim

$350k not including SR deck, codex, S2, etc.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Where a sensor is made has very little to do with quality. If one is unhappy with the quality, then they have used their best source of information - their eyes. It's a judgement they have made and they move on to another camera. I honestly could care less where the Mysterium chip is made. If the images are pleasing to my eyes and I can generate income from this camera, then that is all that matters to me. Chuck you refer to image quality problems. I'd be more interested to hear why you didn't like the quality - specifics. That is a much more beneficial conversation to have IMHO. But, to each his own. You have a right to your opinion, but this almost crossed into spreading rumors territory and seemed a bit unjustified.

Steve

 

[Lexicon]

Interesting accusations but nothing substantial as usual. Less Smirnoff and more thought before posting makes for better threads. Just my two cents.